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Re: [RE] Stream identification at the MAC SAP

Philippe:
We REALLY need to talk as I was the incAlliance lead for Nat-semi (I still have the t-shirt) and my Nortel colleague Paul 
Bottorff who is now the Tech Co-Chair of the Metro Ethernet Forum was the lead of the 3COM driven PACE group.  Apple was also a member on incAlliance as was Pac Bell.  That was my first interface with one of these old "stone age" telecom companies.
At that time these alliances all believed that the killer app was desktop video conferencing.  That application was so challenging that no one every met the challenge.
FYI, the Canon VCC1 and then VCC3 was the camera of choice.  I still have several VCC3's.
Where are you located?  Hope that you can join us at the 802.3 meeting in Texas.
Richard
 
 

Philippe BOUCACHARD wrote:

 

Dave,

It seems there was even a "Isochronous Network Communication Alliance (or incAlliance)"
back then,  and proprietary solution named "Priority Access Control Enabled (PACE) "
but supported by several companies "Apple, Dell, Novell, Oracle, Silicon Graphics,
Starlight Networks, and Sun Microsystems" according to an 1996 article
from Byte at http://www.byte.com/art/9603/sec9/art3.htm

with an old fashioned picture of IsoEthernet:

http://www.byte.com/art/9603/img/036st2a2.htm

best regards

Philippe Boucachard
> Bill,
>
> For those that are unfamiliar with them, I would encourage
> what you suggest. However, I think I already have a good
> feel for these too and they appear much to divergent from
> 802.3 to be easily incorporated.
>
> From the little that I have heard, I also understand that
> 802.9 would also require dramatic changes to 802.3 and is
> therefore not applicable. However, I would be interested
> in reading for myself, if this reference were available.
>
> Some relevant review material would be the classA/classB/classC
> classes supported within 802.17. I believe this standard will
> be on the CD in November.
>
> From talks with my IEEE contacts, I also understand that
> previous standards (if judged to be appicable, by the Chair)
> can be obtained for review by participants.
>
> DVJ
>
> David V. James
> 3180 South Ct
> Palo Alto, CA 94306
> Home: +1.650.494.0926
>       +1.650.856.9801
> Cell: +1.650.954.6906
> Fax:  +1.360.242.5508
> Base: dvj@alum.mit.edu
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG [mailto:owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Shvodian William-r63101
>   Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:08 PM
>   To: STDS-802-3-RE@listserv.ieee.org
>   Subject: Re: [RE] Stream identification at the MAC SAP
>
>
>   Well, add FDDI-II and ATM to the reading list, then...
>
>   Bill
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>   From: owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG [mailto:owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG]
> On Behalf Of David V James
>   Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:50 PM
>   To: STDS-802-3-RE@listserv.ieee.org
>   Subject: Re: [RE] Stream identification at the MAC SAP
>
>
>   Matt,
>
>   >> Maybe that says something.
>   Probably does. It says that it would be good to read what they have done,
> so as to not repeat the
>   same mistakes. A good read is always valuable.
>
>   DVJ
>
>   David V. James
>   3180 South Ct
>   Palo Alto, CA 94306
>   Home: +1.650.494.0926
>         +1.650.856.9801
>   Cell: +1.650.954.6906
>   Fax:  +1.360.242.5508
>   Base: dvj@alum.mit.edu
>
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG
> [mailto:owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG]On Behalf Of Matt Squire
>     Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 5:36 PM
>     To: STDS-802-3-RE@listserv.ieee.org
>     Subject: Re: [RE] Stream identification at the MAC SAP
>
>
>     So, there was a bunch of work on trying to make isochronous LANs in the
> IEEE, and now all of that work is in hibernation and not in use.
>
>     Maybe that says something.
>
>     - Matt
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG
> [mailto:owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG]On Behalf Of Richard Brand
>       Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 2:23 PM
>       To: STDS-802-3-RE@listserv.ieee.org
>       Subject: Re: [RE] Stream identification at the MAC SAP
>
>
>       Jose:
>       802.9 is a good example for Bill's question.  I was a member of the
> 802.9 WG when the group completed the work on 802.9a (ISLAN16-T) and .9b
> which I forget the formal name, but defined the Access Unit AU which was the
> I/F to other network types.  This WG by the way is also in hibernation.
> 802.9a defined an interface between .9a TE's and servers to a .9b AU and we
> did take exception to providing compliance with 802.1 in our .9b AU PAR for
> the isochronous and multiservice modes of operation.  The third mode was the
> 10BASE-T mode which of course complied with .1.  The modes that incorporated
> isochronous traffic claimed compatibility to ITU-T defined ISDN transport
> and used the Q.93x family of signalling protocols.
>       As you state, the .9 group has been disbanded for many years and there
> has been no effort to to revise these documents.
>       Regards,
>       Richard Brand
>
>
>
>
>       JMB wrote:
>
>         Have you revised the documents of the IEEE 802.9 ISOCHRONOUS LANs?
> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
>
>
>         This Working Group, now disbanded, developed standards for
> Isochronous LANs, called "Iso-Ethernet", which combines the properties of
> IEE 802 LAN and ISDN networks (Plesiochronous Digital Hierarchy). I believe
> that they can have interesting information, since they developed an
> isochronous system of local network.
>
>         With respect to the second question, the protocol able to identify
> data streams is the LLC type 2 (802.3), by means of the P/F bit.Jose Morales
> Barrosojmb@ieee.org
>
>           ----- Original Message -----
>           From:Shvodian William-r63101
>           To: STDS-802-3-RE@listserv.ieee.org
>           Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:33 AM
>           Subject: [RE] Stream identification at the MAC SAP
>           I have a general question on the MAC-SAP interface for RE.  All
> 802 standards are required to support the 802.2 interface.  The 802.2
> interface does not provide a way of identifying an isochronous stream to the
> MAC at the MAC SAP.  When 802.2 was up for reconfirmation last year I
> suggested that they add a stream identification parameter that could be used
> for protocols that provide isochronous services like 802.15.3 or now 802.3
> RE.  802.2 rejected the comment.
>           Has anyone given a thought to how streams would be identified at
> the MAC-SAP?  Would there be optional parameters added beyond those provided
> by the 802.2 interface?  The current parameters from 802.3 are listed here:
>           MA-UNITDATA request (
>
>           source_address,
>
>           destination_address,
>
>           routing_information,
>
>           data,
>
>           priority,
>
>           service_class
>
>           )
>
>           and from 802.3:
>
>
>           MA_DATA.request (
>
>           destination_address,
>
>           source_address,
>
>           m_sdu,
>
>           service_class
>
>           )
>
>
>           Thanks.
>           Bill