Paul,
   
  There seems to be a certain amount of overlap between the terms "an 
  association", a "a secure association", the wireless primitive 
  "associate",  and other operations that might be referred to as 
  associations/bindings which I for one find a little 
  confusing.
   
  There are two reasonable definitions for a port - (1) a port is nothing 
  but an MSAP or MILSAP - i.e. a MAC (Internal Layer Service Access Point) - i.e 
  a local association/binding between a MAC (Internal Sublayer) Service 
  Client and the MAC (internal Sublayer Service) Provider (2) a port is a name 
  for or identification of a collection of Entities that are bound together and 
  comprise at least one MSAP or MILSAP, and no more than one MILSAP that binds 
  to a Bridge Relay Entity. I believe the latter is more useful, as it explains 
  how the Port can always be given a MAC Address (the MAC address of an 
  associated MSAP where higher layer Entities attach) while a MILSAP is not 
  directly addressable and hence doesn't have to have a MAC Address bound to it. 
  (I'll leave the definition of "a binding' out for now).
   
  So 
  just as in the wired world a Port can exist before a wire is plugged into it, 
  and a Port can be added to a System on demand (like plugging a new card into 
  the system backplane). A port (on a bridge, I can't speak for a standardized 
  wireless AP) can certainly exist before any wireless primitive 'associate" 
  occurs. It just has MAC status parameters (.1D Clause 6.4.2)MAC_Enabled and 
  MAC_Operational FALSE. It can certainly be identified, by a MAC Address bound 
  to an MSAP supported by the Port, and can support higher layer entities (like 
  an IP station) above that MSAP.
   
  So 
  the questions for roving (I use the term to avoid suggesting that anything is 
  going to move from the point of view of IP, or that there is any telephony 
  technology involved) appear to me to be as follows ( I assume that the roving 
  station - the rover - can receive from the AP that it is about to rove to 
  - I'll call this AP "the peg" and I am going to assume that it behaves exactly 
  like a standard bridge - 'cause I can't speak for standardized 
  APs):
   
  a) 
  What entity does the peg use to transmit advertisments that the rover receives 
  and uses to make the decision to rove to the peg (to peg 
  out)
   
  which is closely tied to:
   
  b) 
  when does the wireless port appear/when is it and the resources 
  (counters/records etc) created on the wireless bridge
   
  and 
  
   
  c) 
  what is the address used for advertisments.
   
  I 
  thought that were are 3 possible sets of answers to the above questions that 
  coherently preserve network and network management behavior, however the 
  following seems much the best as it avoids having a number of rovers contend 
  for the same port.
   
  Set 
  1
  --------
   
  a. 
  Advertisements do not come from the port on the peg, but from a distinct 
  higher layer entity on the peg. They are destination addressed to a group MAC 
  address, of the type that is filtered by bridges and carry a source MAC 
  address assigned to the higher layer entity in the peg. It is a complete 
  mistake for the roamer (and for any bridge that might confuse the 
  advertisments with the existence of a shared media link of the ordinary type) 
  to learn this source address, and we should make sure that this is clear - 
  using an address in this way (not port associated) runs the risk of fouling up 
  accessibility of the address. There is no point in attempting to send a frame 
  through the bridge network to this address. The advertisment should contain a 
  system address for the peg - preferably as an IP address plus port number - 
  which can be used by the rover through its current 
  association.
   
  b. 
  The rover contacts the peg through the IP address in the advertisment, using 
  its current connection through another AP, and the peg creates the 
  port or allocates an existing port specifically for this rover with parameters 
  supplied by the rover (if the rover doesn't peg out soon the peg will withdraw 
  the port, destroy it or use it for another rover).
   
  c. 
  The rover associates with the port and can receive further parameters and 
  conduct any remaining dialogue through the uncontrolled port necessary to 
  gaining access through the controlled/authorized port. In particular the 
  uncontrolled port is used for the rover to send its first "I've arrived 
  message".
   
  Mick
   
   
  If 
  the rover can both send and receive messages to and from the peg as if it were 
  using shared media before forming an insecure one-to-one association with the 
  peg then the above answers might change.
   
  
   
  So 
  the big question for me is, how do we deal with the port in the roaming 
  wireless world if it needs to be instantiated before the association actually 
  exists?   Does the port you are talking about fit this model?  
  In other words, before I roam to the new AP, the association doesn't exist 
  yet, so neither does the port.   How do I create it before the 
  association takes place, so I can quickly open the controlled port 
  part when the supplicant finally does show up and associate?   This 
  is the pre-auth problem...
   
  Paul
  
    
    
    Mick,
    I 
    think that is exactly what I'm proposing for the Handoff group. 2 entities, 
    one on the controlled port and one on the uncontrolled port. They may 
    actually be the same entity with an attachment to both LSAPs, that is 
    TBD.
     
    The reasoning is that it benefits from all the 
    goodness that EAPoL benefits from. 802 Media independence and a clear 
    definition of the security state of the system (port open/ port 
    closed).
     
    In 
    my model, it would be a policy decision as to what information or services 
    were available on which port. Obviously some information would need to be 
    secured and some information, such as say service advertisments ("Come to my 
    base station, Cheap bandwidth here!") would be better unsecured and 
    available expediently.
     
    The answer to the question of whether we can retrofit such a clean 
    architecture into 802[11] is I believe 'yes' and yes its definition should 
    be orthogonal to linksec. If it is not possible, watch the handoff group 
    crash and burn :-).
     
    Regards,
    DJ
     
    David Johnston
Intel Corporation
Chair, IEEE 802 
    Handoff ECSG
Email : dj.johnston@intel.com
Tel   : 503 
    380 5578 (Mobile)
Tel   : 503 264 3855 (Office) 
    
      
      
      The general solution to this class of issues 
      seems fairly clear. Provide/define a protocol entity that attaches to 
      the/an Uncontrolled Port that is providing the attachment point for the 
      roving station.
       
      Apart from the fact that that entity appears to 
      need to be able to read the current status of the Authorized/Controlled 
      Port (really as an optimization so that it doesn't have to conduct its own 
      further checks to guide its behavior - another and possibly better 
      solution might be to partition the overall functionality between such an 
      entity and a companion one that ataches to the Authorized Port, or to 
      define an entity which attaches to both), its definition ought to be 
      orthogonal to LinkSec.
       
      Clearly with a roving type technology where ports 
      come and go an association (also quite properly known as a Port) needs to 
      be in place for such an entity to communicate with the roving station. 
      That association doesn't have to be secure however.
       
       
      Wired world:
       
      Uncontrolled     
      Authorized
        
      Port  \      /    
      Port (secured association)
               
      \    /
                SecY
                 
      |
               Port 
      (lower MSAP)
                            
      |
       
      Unwired world:
       
      
      Uncontrolled     
      Authorized
        
      Port  \      /    
      Port
               
      \    /
                SecY
                 
      |
               Association
                            
      |
 
       
       
      Mick
       
      [I'm not saying that one can retrofit such a 
      clean architecture to 802.11 as currently defined.]
       
       
      
      On Behalv of Dave Johnston: