Paul,
     
    There seems to be a certain amount of overlap between the terms "an 
    association", a "a secure association", the wireless primitive 
    "associate",  and other operations that might be referred to as 
    associations/bindings which I for one find a little 
    confusing.
     
    There are two reasonable definitions for a port - (1) a port is 
    nothing but an MSAP or MILSAP - i.e. a MAC (Internal Layer Service Access 
    Point) - i.e a local association/binding between a MAC (Internal 
    Sublayer) Service Client and the MAC (internal Sublayer Service) Provider 
    (2) a port is a name for or identification of a collection of Entities that 
    are bound together and comprise at least one MSAP or MILSAP, and no more 
    than one MILSAP that binds to a Bridge Relay Entity. I believe the latter is 
    more useful, as it explains how the Port can always be given a MAC Address 
    (the MAC address of an associated MSAP where higher layer Entities attach) 
    while a MILSAP is not directly addressable and hence doesn't have to have a 
    MAC Address bound to it. (I'll leave the definition of "a binding' out for 
    now).
     
    So 
    just as in the wired world a Port can exist before a wire is plugged into 
    it, and a Port can be added to a System on demand (like plugging a new card 
    into the system backplane). A port (on a bridge, I can't speak for a 
    standardized wireless AP) can certainly exist before any wireless primitive 
    'associate" occurs. It just has MAC status parameters (.1D Clause 
    6.4.2)MAC_Enabled and MAC_Operational FALSE. It can certainly be identified, 
    by a MAC Address bound to an MSAP supported by the Port, and can support 
    higher layer entities (like an IP station) above that 
    MSAP.
     
    So 
    the questions for roving (I use the term to avoid suggesting that anything 
    is going to move from the point of view of IP, or that there is any 
    telephony technology involved) appear to me to be as follows ( I assume that 
    the roving station - the rover - can receive from the AP that it is 
    about to rove to - I'll call this AP "the peg" and I am going to assume that 
    it behaves exactly like a standard bridge - 'cause I can't speak for 
    standardized APs):
     
    a) 
    What entity does the peg use to transmit advertisments that the rover 
    receives and uses to make the decision to rove to the peg (to peg 
    out)
     
    which is closely tied to:
     
    b) 
    when does the wireless port appear/when is it and the resources 
    (counters/records etc) created on the wireless bridge
     
    and 
     
    c) 
    what is the address used for advertisments.
     
    I 
    thought that were are 3 possible sets of answers to the above questions that 
    coherently preserve network and network management behavior, however the 
    following seems much the best as it avoids having a number of rovers contend 
    for the same port.
     
    Set 1
    --------
     
    a. 
    Advertisements do not come from the port on the peg, but from a distinct 
    higher layer entity on the peg. They are destination addressed to a group 
    MAC address, of the type that is filtered by bridges and carry a source MAC 
    address assigned to the higher layer entity in the peg. It is a complete 
    mistake for the roamer (and for any bridge that might confuse the 
    advertisments with the existence of a shared media link of the ordinary 
    type) to learn this source address, and we should make sure that this is 
    clear - using an address in this way (not port associated) runs the risk of 
    fouling up accessibility of the address. There is no point in attempting to 
    send a frame through the bridge network to this address. The advertisment 
    should contain a system address for the peg - preferably as an IP address 
    plus port number - which can be used by the rover through its current 
    association.
     
    b. 
    The rover contacts the peg through the IP address in the advertisment, using 
    its current connection through another AP, and the peg creates the 
    port or allocates an existing port specifically for this rover with 
    parameters supplied by the rover (if the rover doesn't peg out soon the peg 
    will withdraw the port, destroy it or use it for another 
    rover).
     
    c. 
    The rover associates with the port and can receive further parameters and 
    conduct any remaining dialogue through the uncontrolled port necessary to 
    gaining access through the controlled/authorized port. In particular the 
    uncontrolled port is used for the rover to send its first "I've arrived 
    message".
     
    Mick
     
     
    If 
    the rover can both send and receive messages to and from the peg as if it 
    were using shared media before forming an insecure one-to-one association 
    with the peg then the above answers might change.
     
    
     
    So 
    the big question for me is, how do we deal with the port in the roaming 
    wireless world if it needs to be instantiated before the association 
    actually exists?   Does the port you are talking about fit this 
    model?  In other words, before I roam to the new AP, the association 
    doesn't exist yet, so neither does the port.   How do I create it 
    before the association takes place, so I can quickly open the 
    controlled port part when the supplicant finally does show up and 
    associate?   This is the pre-auth problem...
     
    Paul
    
      
      
      Mick,
      I think that is exactly what I'm proposing for 
      the Handoff group. 2 entities, one on the controlled port and one on the 
      uncontrolled port. They may actually be the same entity with an attachment 
      to both LSAPs, that is TBD.
       
      The reasoning is that it benefits from all the 
      goodness that EAPoL benefits from. 802 Media independence and a clear 
      definition of the security state of the system (port open/ port 
      closed).
       
      In my model, it would be a policy decision as to what information 
      or services were available on which port. Obviously some information would 
      need to be secured and some information, such as say service advertisments 
      ("Come to my base station, Cheap bandwidth here!") would be better 
      unsecured and available expediently.
       
      The answer to the question of whether we can retrofit such a clean 
      architecture into 802[11] is I believe 'yes' and yes its definition should 
      be orthogonal to linksec. If it is not possible, watch the handoff group 
      crash and burn :-).
       
      Regards,
      DJ
       
      David Johnston
Intel Corporation
Chair, IEEE 802 
      Handoff ECSG
Email : dj.johnston@intel.com
Tel   : 503 
      380 5578 (Mobile)
Tel   : 503 264 3855 (Office) 
      
        
        
        The general solution to this class of issues 
        seems fairly clear. Provide/define a protocol entity that attaches to 
        the/an Uncontrolled Port that is providing the attachment point for the 
        roving station.
         
        Apart from the fact that that entity appears to 
        need to be able to read the current status of the Authorized/Controlled 
        Port (really as an optimization so that it doesn't have to conduct its 
        own further checks to guide its behavior - another and possibly better 
        solution might be to partition the overall functionality between such an 
        entity and a companion one that ataches to the Authorized Port, or to 
        define an entity which attaches to both), its definition ought to be 
        orthogonal to LinkSec.
         
        Clearly with a roving type technology where 
        ports come and go an association (also quite properly known as a Port) 
        needs to be in place for such an entity to communicate with the roving 
        station. That association doesn't have to be secure 
        however.
         
         
        Wired world:
         
        Uncontrolled     
        Authorized
          
        Port  \      /    
        Port (secured association)
                 
        \    /
                  SecY
                   
        |
                 Port 
        (lower MSAP)
                              
        |
         
        Unwired world:
         
        
        Uncontrolled     
        Authorized
          
        Port  \      /    
        Port
                 
        \    /
                  SecY
                   
        |
                 Association
                              
        |
 
         
         
        Mick
         
        [I'm not saying that one can retrofit such a 
        clean architecture to 802.11 as currently defined.]
         
         
        
        On Behalv of Dave Johnston: