IEEE P802-99/@@

Monday, March 8^th, 1999 - 8:00 a.m.

Hyatt Regency Austin, TX

1. MEETING CALLED TO ORDER

Jim Carlo called the meeting to order at 8:09 am. Members in attendance were:

Jim Carlo - Chair, IEEE 802 LAN / MAN Standards Committee
Paul Nikolich - Vice Chair, IEEE 802 LAN / MAN Standards Committee
Buzz Rigsbee - Executive Secretary, IEEE 802 LAN / MAN Standards Committee
Howard Frazier - Recording Secretary, IEEE 802 LAN / MAN Standards Committee
Bill Lidinsky - Chair, IEEE 802.1 - HILI Working Group
Dave Carlson - Chair, IEEE 802.2 - Logical Link Control Working Group
Geoff Thompson - Chair, IEEE 802.3 - CSMA/CD Working Group
Bob Love - Chair, IEEE 802.5 - Token Ring Working Group
Chip Benson - Chair, IEEE 802.8 - Fiber Optic TAG
Vic Hayes - Chair, IEEE 802.11 - Wireless LANs Working Group
Robert Grow - Treasurer LMSC
Robert Russell - Chair, IEEE 802.14 - Cable TV Protocol Working Group
Khaled Amer - Chair, QoS/FC ECSG
Roger Marks - Chair, BBWA ECSG

The meeting was attended by approximately 10 IEEE 802 Working Group members

FINAL AGENDA - IEEE 802 LMSC EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEETING

Monday, March 8 1999 - 8:00 a.m.

Hyatt Regency, Austin, TX

1. MEETING CALLED TO ORDER -Carlo 1 08:00 AM

2. APPROVE OR MODIFY AGENDA -Carlo 4 08:01 AM

3. APPROVE / MODIFY MINUTES OF PREVIOUS ME -Carlo 5 08:05 AM

4. TREASURER'S REPORT -Grow 10 08:05 AM

5.0 ACTION ITEMS FROM LAST SEC MEETING -Carlo 10 08:15 AM

5.1 PAR APPROVAL PROCESS -Nikolich 10 08:25 AM

5.2 PA BBWA (LMDS) PAR -Marks 10 08:35 AM

5.3 PA WPAN PAR -Hayes 10 08:45 AM

5.4 PA 802.5? Enhanced Source Routing PAR -Love 5 08:55 AM

5.5 PA 802.1DSupplement - Rapid Reconfiguratio -Lidinsky 5 09:00 AM

5.2 MI QoS/FC ECSG -Amer 10 09:05 AM

5.21 MI 802.10 Registration Authority Request -Alonge 5 09:15 AM

5.22 MI WG reflector membership -Hayes 5 09:20 AM

5.3 DT International Survey Results -Jeffree 15 09:25 AM

BREAK - 15 09:40 AM

5.31 DT ARC Process -Carlo 5 09:55 AM

5.32 DT 802.5t Ballot Resolution Process on Dis -Love 5 10:00 AM

5.33 DT SEC Draft Standard Availability Process -Pribula 10 10:05 AM

5.34 DT SEC Reflector -Frazier 5 10:15 AM

5.35 DT SEC Web site -Frazier 5 10:20 AM

5.36 DT Web Pointers vs attached files -Carlo 5 10:25 AM

5.37 DT Use of www.80211.com by vendor -Hayes 5 10:30 AM

5.38 DT AlphaGraphics -Rigsbee 5 10:35 AM

5.39 DT Y2K issues with 802 Standards -Carlo 5 10:40 AM

5.4 II 802.3ab (1000BASE-T) -Thompson 10 10:45 AM

5.41 II Higher Speed Call for Interest -Thompson 5 10:55 AM

5.42 II MDI Power Call for Interest -Thompson 5 11:00 AM

5.43 II TIA 10/100 Fiber project -Thompson 5 11:05 AM

5.43aII 802.14 update (cable labs) -Nikolich 5 11:10 AM

5.43bII SC6 Action Items -Carlson/T5 11:15 AM

5.44 II Tutorial on Electronic Balloting -Mick 5 11:20 AM

5.45 II LMSC Ballot Pool -Pribula 10 11:25 AM

5.46 II Rules change ballots status -Nikolich 10 11:35 AM

5.47 II Tutorial Schedule, CDROMs and Wednesday -Rigsbee 10 11:45 AM

5.48 II Future meeting venues -Rigsbee 5 11:55 AM

5.49 II IEEE Publication status -Zelenty 5 12:00 PM

5.50 II SCC36 EPRI OSI Protocols -Carlo 5 12:05 PM

ME - Motion, External MI – Motion, Internal

DT- Discussion Topic II - InfPA - PAR Approval

Motion to approve agenda as modified 8:15 am

Moved: Hayes

Second: Lidinsky

Carlo will copy minutes to SEC members.

Paper copies in folders. Email electronic copy to reflector.

Postpone approval until Thursday pm meeting.

Robert Grow

see file (MonTresRpt.pdf)

Albuquerque meeting was fairly economical.

Need to revise attendance forecast upward.

Deadbeat list growing.

Several DBs from BBWA, Grow will work with Roger to follow up

with theBBWA DBs, who are unfamiliar with the process.

Copying was inexpensive.

There was a supplemental invoice of $1900 extra from July meeting.

Healthy increase of $16,018 in operating reserve.

Russel asks if we can expect to see a decrease in the AV expenses,

Bob Grow says no.

carlo.pdf

From March, 1998

5.2 Buzz Rigsbee. Bidding process for plenary meeting organizer 6:00 pm meeting today

5.23 Pat Thaler Set up experts reflector for 802.12. Jim will follow up with Pat

,From July, 1998

5.9 Jim Carlo Send out update meeting services IEEE rules to SEC. There are new rules for

operation of meetings.

From Nov 1998

5.10c DV 802.9b draft on web. Draft is on web

5.11 RR Spnsor ballot for 802.14

5.15b CB Spnsor ballot resolution and recirc for 802.8

Nov 1998 Ongoing Items

802.0 to sponsor ballot. Need new motion on Thursday, pm

802.3ab to sponsor ballot. Went to ballot

802.3ab to RevCom. Is on agenda.

802.11rev to RevCOM is on RevCom agenda.

Study Groups

ECSG on QOS/FC. Initiated 7/98, rechartered 11/98

ECSG on BWA. Initiated 11/98.

802.5 SG on Enhanced Source routing.

802.11 SG on Wireless PAN initiated 7/97, rechartered 11/98

Paul Nikolich reviews PAR submittal and approval process.

Geoff Thompson notes that each of the sub-items in the 5 criteria

must be addressed.

Material must be submitted 30 days prior to plenary meeting.

Paul suggests a tutorial at plenary preceeding PAR approval request.

Geoff comments that tutorial a plenary before elongates process.

Bill Lidinsky states opinion that sequence of events is highly compressed.

Geoff, Vic, Bob say that schedule is compressed, but it is the only schedule that works.

History of Group’s activities.

see file (par_bwa.pdf)

BBWA = fixed antenna 30 GHz terrestrial wireless communication.

Task groups: System requirements, co-existence, MAC, PHY

PAR Title/Scope/Purpose

Thompson suggests adding "interoperable" to Scope.

5 Criteria

Paul Nikolich asks for an example of current deployment

Roger responds: Windstar, Telligent. All use a single vendor’s equipment

Bill Lidinisky needs a set of foils to present to 802.1

Rigsbee asks if there is a bandwidth target.

Roger answers no.

Nikolich asks if intention is to form new WG

Roger answers yes.

see file (wpan0308.pdf)

Dick Braley, chairman of WPAN SG. Overhead foils.

A tutorial from HomeRF, Bluetooth, WPAN on Tuesday.

Carlo: Follow up meeting on Wednesday. 802 will need to

make a decision on this PAR, depending on relationship of

the three groups.

Hayes: Will WPAN use thinned-down 802.11 MAC? Or

a completely different MAC? Which WG does this belong in?

Ian Gifford: Rev 8 of PAR. Geoff, Bill want copies of Rev 8.

The points of contention in PAR concern requirements for

interoperability.

Bob Love. PAR was distributed 1.5 months ago

Change "Investigate" to "Accommodate" in Purpose.

Carlo asks Bob to present Scope and Purpose in Plenary.

VLAN Classification by Protocol and Port- a supplement to 802.1Q

Rapid Reconfiguration – a supplement to 802.1D

802.1u is a corrigedum to 802.1Q, on NESCOM agenda.

see file (QoSFCsecrep.pdf)

Bob Love points out that the final motion from the Miami Interim

meeting did not pass because it failed to garner 75% approval.

Khaled Amer agrees. Geoff Thompson clarifies by saying

that the SG chair ruled during the meeting that the motion had passed,

but that decision was found to be in error.

Hal Keen states that his vote should have been counted as No.

Rich Seifert’s response presented.

Carlo askes how many people on reflector, Amer answers ~ 150.

Frazier – responses to straw poll will be appended to minutes.

see file (qosfcmsg.pdf)

Carlo: Do you need to have a SG meeting this week?

Amer: No. Would like to request some time with Carlo/SEC to

discuss ongoing relationship with 802. Carlo agrees. Will arrange

and SEC subcommittee meeting.

Nikolich asks if Amer is recommendation termination of study group.

Amer says he will not ask for study group to be renewed.

Carlo says that it would require positive action to renew study group,

will not need a motion to disband.

Bob Love would like to see SEC take a more proactive position to

direct SG to resolve issues. Should meet Thursday PM to work with

membership of other WGs to resolve issues, to attempt to create a

positive outcome.

Carlson: Are people who participated in SG attending the plenary this week?

Amer: Some are some are not.

Carlson: Is it reasonable to have a meeting if some of the key participants in the SG

are not here, having not expected to hold a meeting this week?

Rigsbee: Take whole subject out to an SEC subcommittee to generate options.

Hal Keen: Points out that a Thursday afternoon meeting would exclude 802.1.

Carlo: Sets a time for SEC subcommittee meeting Tuesday 2:00 to discuss QoS/FC in

boardroom.

Geoff Thompson asks that Jim Carlo establish for the record whether the motion at

the Miami Interim meeting passed or failed.

Rigsbee: Notes that under the rules for Study Groups, the motion from Miami failed.

Thompson makes motion

Moved: Thompson

Second: Bob Grow seconds.

Bob Love moves to place on agenda for thursday evening

Robert Russel seconds.

Removed from agenda. Will be carried forward to a future meeting.

Geoff Thompson, speaking as the chairman of the RAC: "nobody

told us anything, this places a substantial ongoing burden on the RAC.

RevCOM doesn’t have a very strong filter in this area. Nobody gets

to add an item to the RAC without approval of the SEC."

802.11 has two reflectors. Received a request from an individual who

wished to join 802.11 WG reflector, presumably for the sole purpose

of obtaining access to drafts. Vic would like support for a policy of

being able to limit membership on reflectors.

Grow: Should be up to discretion of chair.

Rigsbee: Sees no harm in having two reflectors, one public, one for WG members.

Thompson: Generally acknowledges all requests to be added to reflector.

Russell: Limits access to information on website to active participants only.

Hal Keen: Should be left to individual WGs to decide.

Rigsbee: Should be some minimum threshold rules for membership/access.

Carlson: Our operating rules should say that access to reflectors/web sites is up to

discretion of chair.

Hayes: Agrees with Hal Keen’s point. Chair should have the authority.

Marks: Would like to see any IEEE rules on this subject.

Carlo: Will take this issue up in an SEC subcommittee session tomorrow 11:00 am Tuesday.

draft a guideline.

see file (ISOSurvey.pdf)

Carlo clarifies point from Robin Tasker’s proposal that SC25 would be added to set of liason

organizations.

Lidinsky: Congratulates Robin Tasker for generating proposal that solves the problems. Agrees with Harry Gold’s

comments.

Rigsbee: Would adoption of Tasker proposal reduce the amount of JTC1 coordination?

Jeffree: Would reduce it to practically zero.

Rigsbee: Should it reduce the IPF?

Carlo: Don’t bet on it.

Thompson: Agrees with Lidinsky. Add to proposal that liason letter should be sent when PAR is approved.

Jeffree: Agrees.

Carlo: Set a time of 3:00 Wednesday afternoon to discuss/formulate motion.

The question is what is an ARC, and how to get one?

An Object Identifier ARC may be useful, for instance for management.

ANSI assigns them for our projects.

Hal to freshen document which explains ARCs and how to get them, add to website.

Thompson: Suggests that ARC assignments be included in 802 Overview and Architecture.

Carlo reviews SEC meeting attendance. Asks that it be included in minutes. Notes that Paul Eastman is no

longer a voting member of the SEC.

Carlo reviews SEC business meeting schedule.

Geoff asks that Tuesday morning topics be moved.

Lidinisky asks if there are any requests for items for a Tech Plenary Wednesday morning?

No requests.

Carlo suggests moving SEC business meetings from Tuesday am to Wednesday at 4:00 (AlphaGraphics and Reflector)

Alphagraphics wed at 4:00, reflector Wednesday at 5:00.

Question came up with respect to ballot disapproval vote. When does conversion from disapprove to approve get noted?

Suggestion that Disapproval gets changed to Approved based on comment resolution/pending recirc with notification to IEEE.

Thompson: This engendered discussion with Mike Binder, but RevCom was not included in discussion. Mike’s suggestion

would make things more clear cut. Binder doesn’t get to make a rule on his own.

Love: Satistified with current status of this issue.

Needs pointer to draft, needs password, access information.

Thompson: You get sent a Working Group ballot notice from 802.3 which has pointer, login, password.

Pribula: That’s okay, but not all groups do this.

Carlo: The question is, how to make communication with Denise more specific.

email with subject line saying "updated draft for 802.X available".

Love: We should be aware that IEEE electronic distribution is mainstream.

Grow: Must make full draft available, not just change pages.

Thompson: Need standardized mail headers, but not a slew of specialized mailings.

Carlo: Please send a specific email to Denise.

Zelenty: Direct notice to Denise is helpful.

Thompson/Carlo: All drafts should be available for sale.

Carlo: Direct and explicit notice necessary.

Rigsbee: Multiple announcements, comment availability, change pages, drafts, etc.

Love: Denise needs to define a procedure that works for her, and up to us (all WGs) to follow it.

Carlo: When you have a draft for sale, send an email to Denise with pointer, login, password.

Zelenty: Posted and available for sale within 2 weeks.

Thompson: 2 weeks is too long. 15 day recirculation requires faster turn around so that

draft is not obsolete.

Frazier suggests cutting over next week.

Frazier will copy archive.

Action Item: Frazier to copy 802exec reflector archive to IEEE web server, activate stds-802-sec@ieee.org

No objection to moving reflector.

Frazier says that SEC private web site has been set up.

Will distribute username/password via mail slots.

Don’t use attachments for simple files.

Maybe set up server for this meeting.

A vendor is using www.80211.com. Can we do anything?

IEEE has no trademark process for things like this.

Carlo will bring this issue up again at Stds Board.

Carlo assigns action item to Frazier to register www.802.org and www.802.com.

Will need motion on Thursday to authorize expense. How about motion today.

Action Item: Frazier to register www.802.com and www.802.org and www.802.net domain names.

Staff turn over at AlphaGraphics causing problems. Lost drafts, etc. Ongoing problem.

Use of the service is diminishing. Should we continue doing it all?

Rigsbee recommends scrapping AlphaGraphics

SEC Motion:

Do not renew AlphaGraphics Agreement.

Assist IEEE in providing an alternative distribution service.

Moved: Rigsbee

Second: Lidinsky

Hayes: What service do we have to establish?

Rigsbee/Grow: Distribution of minutes and other documents via www.

Thompson: Add "for documents available only in hardcopy". Friendly ammendment, accepted.

Frazier: If it is not in softcopy, scan it. WG scans it and posts it on www site.

Thompson: Examples of unsuccessful attempts to get documents from AlphaGraphics.

Carlo: subject of 4:00 Wednesday business meeting is what to do with old materials?

Carlo: Check standards for Y2K compliance? Do any standards need revision because of Y2K issues.

Lidinsky: Y2K is a computer problem, not a people problem.

Grow: Except for MIB objects.

In WG ballot, there was a vote that said technology demonstration was needed. That

comment was carried forward as an unresolved negative.

No demonstration to date. Several people have submitted similar comment in Sponsor ballot.

Have conducted one recirc. Currently 4 outstanding negatives based on technology demonstration.

1000BASE-T currently on RevCom agenda. > 75% approval.

Two balloters have suggested 2 year trial use as an alternative to delay.

Bunch of editorial and some technical comments on recirc.

An "out of left field" new negative – withstand ringing voltage.

We have got a little work to do, must decide whether 802.3ab stays on RevCom agenda.

Carlo: TF will make recommendation to 802.3, 802.3WG will make recommendation to SEC on

Thursday and ask for decision.

Nikolich: How many in sponsor ballot pool? A: 60-70

Formal call for interest to study 10 Gb Ethernet, what ever that is.

Significant industry discussion. Will hear presentations Tuesday, Wednesday.

No PAR out of this meeting, but there will probably be a Study Group request.

Call for interest. We will be requested to study issue of how to provide power at

RJ-45 for Ethernet. Would enable a broad range of devices, IP telephones, cameras, etc.

Expect study group. Meetings/presentations Wednesday afternoon.

TIA FO 2.2 has produced a draft that is out for ballot, had comment resolution meeting.

TIA has received a notice that IEEE believes significant portions of document were

drawn from IEEE standards without a copyright notice. Response from TIA has been

to pull draft from web site. Subject is in negotiation.

see file (docsis.pdf)

Nikolich presents dense chart.

Considering moving CableLabs DOCSIS 1.1 QoS MAC to 802.14.

DOCSIS = Data Over Cable Services Specification

Will be discussed in 802.14 Tuesday morning.

Carlson: Next meeting of SC6 in Berlin June 28^th to July 2^nd. Asks for input at

Thursday PM SEC meeting.

11802-6 Standard Ethernet Type values. To be submitted by Tony Jeffree for NP letter

ballot when the working draft is available. Lidinisky will report back on Thursday.

8802-11 will be forwarded to ITTF by Valerie Zelenty with assist from Vic once

IEEE RevCom approves and editing finished. Normal process.

15802-3 MAC Bridges. Has been forwarded to ITTF according to Lidinsky.

Editing meeting called for 3/11 Thursday to resolve comments on 8802-3. What

are logistics?

Thompson: No requests for a telephone connections. Japan wants to provide input by email,

closing date is 3/10. Small meeting of editing group to formulate position.

8:00 pm Monday.

Denise presents foil on how to join the pool.

Balloting pool form.

Thompson wants it available in PDF.

see file (pool.pdf)

Copies in in-box, copies at registration desk.

5.46Rules change ballot status Nikolich 11:43 am LCD overheads

Meeting last night.

see file (rulesmtg.pdf)

Will submit proposal for formal rules revision on Thursday.

Carlo: Do we need an SEC business meeting to work on this?

Hayes: Would like to meet with Nikolich.

Nikolich: Tonight after tutorials, get together in the boardroom. 9:30.

5.47 Tutorial schedule, CDROMs, Wednesday social Rigsbee 11:48 am

see file (buzzcd.pdf)

New CDROMs printed. Got a good deal. Will exchange old CDs for new.

Newly qualified individuals who didn’t get a CD can get a new one.

Lidinsky: Lots of people didn’t bring their old CDROMs.

Carlo: Legal obligation is exchange. Mail-back okay. Can be sent back to Carlo.

Carlo: have to be voting members of 802 to get CD.

Note: First tutorial is this afternoon, not this evening.

Very good texas BBQ social planned.

5.48 Future meeting venues Rigsbee 11:55 am

cover at the plenary

Rigsbee: Classic Consulting is now Face to Face Events, a US company.

see file (face2face.pdf)

see file (QoSFCplenrep.pdf)

Concerns/recommendations raised in November

• apprehension on interaction of L2 Flow control with that of L4

Interaction with IETF

• sent letter to Scott Bradner after discussion on reflector
• attended IETF meeting in december, 1998

IETF position

• Interested in QoS work going on in 802

Proposed lab work discussed in January Interim meeting

Proposal for Study Group activities

• work offline
• do not request renewal of Study Group Charter
• report findings later

Activities this week

• no meeting scheduled
• SEC subcommittee will meet to discuss future steps at 2:00 Tuesday in boardroom

see file (buzzcd.pdf)

New CDROMs. Chair offers a mail-back service. You can get a CDROM if you

register for this meeting, and:

You got one in November, brought it with you to this meeting, and exchange it.

You got one in November, and promise to mail it back to Jim Carlo.

You newly acquire voting rights at this meeting.

Meeting adjourned at 2:30 pm

Respectfully Submitted,
Howard M. Frazier, Jr.
Recording Secretary