Re: FW: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
This is just ducky--
We were doing just fine on our own. We stopped our own activities. It is
now late in the game for our chosen venue and we are left high and dry.
thank you one and all. I certainly have learned my lesson.
PS I thought the motion passed 8-2. so why are we stopping? very unusual
voting procedure.
At 02:44 PM 12/8/00 -0800, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>Jim, Given the firm opposition by Geoff Thompson and Bob Grow to the notion
>of 802-Hosted interims that do not include ALL working groups, I think we
>should consider withdrawing the offer of the 802-Hosted May 2001 interim.
>Neither Dawn nor I relish the thought of a prolonged philosophical battle
>over
>this issue, and frankly none of us need the extra work, if it's not viewed as
>beneficial to the 802 community. Until we see some resolution on this matter
>I would prefer to concentrate my time in areas that will be productive.
>
>Thanx, Buzz
>Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>Boeing SSG
>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721
>email: everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> > ----------
> > From: Geoff Thompson[SMTP:gthompso@nortelnetworks.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 4:42 PM
> > To: Rigsbee, Everett O
> > Cc: Grow, Bob; stds-802-sec@ieee.org; 802 @F2F Dawn S; 802 @F2F
> Darcel Moro
> > Subject: RE: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
> >
> > Buzz
> > What I believe Bob is saying and what I am saying is that to use 802
> funds for the benefit
> > of a few working groups for activities outside the Plenary is something
> I will not support.
> > It's that simple.
> > Geoff
> > At 04:38 PM 12/5/00 -0800, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
> > OK Bob, So what you and Geoff are saying is that unless every WG in 802
> > chooses to participate in an 802-Hosted interim, it's not possible to
> hold one.
> > If this is your firm and unalterable position on the matter, then we
> probably
> > ought to bag this notion entirely because it's not possible to plan
> anything on
> > that basis. There will always be some WG that has a legitimate reason for
> > wanting to meet separately. My personal view is along the same lines as
> > Bob Love's. That all groups are invited to participate, to help choose
> the
> > week, and if they instead choose to seek a separately hosted meeting, that
> > should not prevent the other WG's from participating in an 802-hosted
> interim.
> > Every group would have a fair and equal chance and they get to choose
> > their preference. They can opt in or opt out, but I don't think they
> should
> > have the right to spoil it for all the groups that do want to
> participate.
> > That seems really unfair to me !!! :-)
> > As soon as we have a WG that doesn't want/need to hold interim meetings
> > we're finished. So why even bother ???
> > Thanx, Buzz
> > Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> > Boeing SSG
> > PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> > Seattle, WA 98124-2207
> > ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721
> > email: everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> > > From: Grow, Bob[SMTP:bob.grow@intel.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 9:17 AM
> > > To: 'Geoff Thompson'; Rigsbee, Everett O
> > > Cc: stds-802-sec; 802 @F2F Dawn S; 802 @F2F Darcel Moro
> > > Subject: RE: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
> > > Geoff's conclusion that I expressed an equivalent objection is
> correct. The
> > > fairness issue is fundamental to my concern on how this has
> evolved. Use
> > > of the good faith and credit of the 802 treasury is something that
> has been
> > > denied for interim meetings in the past and in the current plan is
> inequitably applied.
> > > --Bob
> > > From: Geoff Thompson [ mailto:gthompso@nortelnetworks.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 3:03 PM
> > > To: Rigsbee, Everett O
> > > Cc: stds-802-sec; 802 @F2F Dawn S; 802 @F2F Darcel Moro
> > > Subject: RE: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
> > > Buzz-
> > > I do understand that the PLAN is to net zero.
> > > However, according to the motion, the 802 treasury is standing behind
> the
> > > Orlando meeting to the tune of
> > > 1) Guaranteeing that it will happen.
> > > 2) Covering any shortfall
> > > 3) ??
> > > It is not providing the same for other meetings.
> > > That is not equitable and is to the disadvantage of the roughly half
> of the
> > > 802 membership who depend on me to represent them.>
> > > I believe that this is in line with the point that Bob Grow made earlier.
> > > Geoff
> > > At 11:36 AM 12/4/00 -0800, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
> > >>Geoff, I think you are misunderstanding the proposal. All of the
> expenses
> > >>for the Orlando meeting are being paid by the meeting fees collected from
> > >>the attendees (just as we do at a plenary meeting). The plan is to
> tailor the
> > >>expenses at the meeting to come out with net balance of $0. Thus there
> > >>will be no impact on IEEE 802 treasury. The only role being played by
> > >>IEEE 802 is to serve as the hosting body to make the meeting
> arrangements
> > >>and ensure that the Hotel agreement conforms to our stand policies. The
> > >>meeting fees collected from the attendees will cover all of the
> actual expenses.
> > >>It is possible to track and adjust expenses during the meeting so
> that they
> > >>exactly match the funds collected. It is NOT the case that the 802
> Treasury
> > >>is subsidizing one meeting and not the other.
> > >>Thanx, Buzz
> > >>Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> > >>Boeing SSG
> > >>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> > >>Seattle, WA 98124-2207
> > >>ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721
> > >>email: everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> > >>> From: Geoff Thompson[SMTP:gthompso@nortelnetworks.com]
> > >>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 3:03 PM
> > >>> To: jcarlo
> > >>> Cc: IEEE802>
> > >>> Subject: Re: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
> > >>> In the current form I vote DISAPPROVE
> > >>> I cannot support such a discriminatory allocation of funds, i.e. to the
> > >>> group consisting of
> > >>> 802.11
> > >>> 802.15
> > >>> 802.16
> > >>> and excluding
> > >>> 802.1
> > >>> 802.3
> > >>> 802.17
> > >>> If a more equitable arrangement is offered I would be more inclined
> to support it.
> > >>> Geoff
> > >>> At 04:39 PM 12/1/00 -0600, Jim Carlo wrote:
> > >>>>UPDATED STATUS: NOTE CURRENT MOTION WOULD PASS - PLEASE VOTE
> > >>>>Howard Frazier -
> > >>>>Bob Grow -
> > >>>>Paul Nikolich - Approve
> > >>>>Buzz Rigsbee - Approve
> > >>>>Vic Hayes - Approve with Comment
> > >>>>Tony Jeffree - Approve
> > >>>>Geoff Thompson -
> > >>>>Bob Love - Do Not Approve
> > >>>>Stuart Kerry - Approve
> > >>>>Bob Heile - Approve
> > >>>>Roger Marks - Approve
> > >>>>Jim Carlo - Chair
> > >>>>Stuart Kerry, who is here with me at the moment in the Netherlands
> has also
> > >>>>approved this motion. After the November 2000 motion the original
> wireless
> > >>>>hosts for dot11, dot15 and dot16 (ParkerVision and Intersil) have
> not moved
> > >>>>forward with hotel and meeting facilities because they were
> convinced that
> > >>>>802 was taking care of the organization and liability issues. Vic Hayes
> > >>>>I vote conditionally approve based on 802.17 being added to the list of
> > >>>>working groups to meet in Orlando. Otherwise I must vote NO. This
> motion
> > >>>>failed to capture the spirit of the email discussion that directly
> preceeded
> > >>>>it. The previous e-mail suggests that 802.17 prefers Orlando to
> Sacramento,
> > >>>>directily contradicting Note 3. Will all those that have already
> voted in
> > >>>>support of this motion please send an e-mail to the reflector
> stating that
> > >>>>you support my requested change? Thank you. Bob Love
> > >>>>SEC OFFICIAL EMAIL BALLOT 802.0/29Nov2000
> > >>>>Issue Date: 29Nov2000 Closing Date: 3Dec2000
> > >>>>Moved By: Buzz Rigsbee
> > >>>>Move: Approve that IEEE 802 financially back-up the commitment for the
> > >>>>following Working Groups to hold their interim meeting in Orlando on
> > >>>>14-18May. The plan is this meeting will run on a break even
> financial basis.
> > >>>>802.11
> > >>>>802.15
> > >>>>802.16
> > >>>>Notes:
> > >>>>1) 802.11, 802.15, 802.16 are committed to attend this meeting.
> > >>>>2) Bob Grow an I will need to have a financial report of this interim
> > >>>>meeting, to be prepared and presented at the SEC in July. Will work
> out the
> > >>>>details in March.
> > >>>>3) This note is not part of the motion, and outside the scope of
> 802 SEC.
> > >>>>However, 802.3, 802.1, 802.17 currently plan to hold a separate
> meeting,>
> > >>>>hosted by Intel in Sacramento during the week of May 28 - June 1.
> Note that
> > >>>>this is Memorial Day weekend. Note also that this motion does not
> have any
> > >>>>commitment on this meetings, just a possible plan, that might and
> probably
> > >>>>will change.
> > >>>>Jim Carlo(jcarlo@ti.com) Cellular:1-214-693-1776
> > >> Voice&Fax:1-214-853-5274>
> > >>>>TI Fellow, Networking Standards at Texas Instruments
> > >>>>Vice Chair, IEEE-SA Standards Board
> > >>>>Chair, IEEE802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee
> >
Bob Heile
Verizon Technology Organization
Chair IEEE 802.15
40 Sylvan Road, Waltham, MA 02451
Phone: 781-466-2057
Fax: 781-466-2575
Pager: 800-759-8888 PIN 1109355