Re: FW: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
Bob Heile, keep the faith! Buzz's comment looked like a trial balloon to
me, not a supreme court order. I assume we are firmly on course based on
the passed motion.
All, if my assumptions are wrong, please fire a note to the reflector with
corrections.
Best regards,
Robert D. Love
President, LAN Connect Consultants
7105 Leveret Circle Raleigh, NC 27615
Phone: 919 848-6773 Mobile: 919 810-7816
email: rdlove@ieee.org Fax: 720 222-0900
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Heile <bheile@ieee.org>
To: Rigsbee, Everett O <Everett.Rigsbee@PSS.Boeing.com>; 802 J Carlo
<jcarlo@ti.com>
Cc: 802 Exec <stds-802-sec@ieee.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: FW: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
>
> This is just ducky--
>
> We were doing just fine on our own. We stopped our own activities. It is
> now late in the game for our chosen venue and we are left high and dry.
>
> thank you one and all. I certainly have learned my lesson.
>
> PS I thought the motion passed 8-2. so why are we stopping? very unusual
> voting procedure.
>
>
>
>
>
> At 02:44 PM 12/8/00 -0800, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>
> >Jim, Given the firm opposition by Geoff Thompson and Bob Grow to the
notion
> >of 802-Hosted interims that do not include ALL working groups, I think we
> >should consider withdrawing the offer of the 802-Hosted May 2001 interim.
> >Neither Dawn nor I relish the thought of a prolonged philosophical battle
> >over
> >this issue, and frankly none of us need the extra work, if it's not
viewed as
> >beneficial to the 802 community. Until we see some resolution on this
matter
> >I would prefer to concentrate my time in areas that will be productive.
> >
> >Thanx, Buzz
> >Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> >Boeing SSG
> >PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> >Seattle, WA 98124-2207
> >ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721
> >email: everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> > > ----------
> > > From: Geoff Thompson[SMTP:gthompso@nortelnetworks.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 4:42 PM
> > > To: Rigsbee, Everett O
> > > Cc: Grow, Bob; stds-802-sec@ieee.org; 802 @F2F Dawn S; 802 @F2F
> > Darcel Moro
> > > Subject: RE: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
> > >
> > > Buzz
> > > What I believe Bob is saying and what I am saying is that to use 802
> > funds for the benefit
> > > of a few working groups for activities outside the Plenary is
something
> > I will not support.
> > > It's that simple.
> > > Geoff
> > > At 04:38 PM 12/5/00 -0800, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
> > > OK Bob, So what you and Geoff are saying is that unless every WG in
802
> > > chooses to participate in an 802-Hosted interim, it's not possible to
> > hold one.
> > > If this is your firm and unalterable position on the matter, then we
> > probably
> > > ought to bag this notion entirely because it's not possible to plan
> > anything on
> > > that basis. There will always be some WG that has a legitimate reason
for
> > > wanting to meet separately. My personal view is along the same lines
as
> > > Bob Love's. That all groups are invited to participate, to help
choose
> > the
> > > week, and if they instead choose to seek a separately hosted meeting,
that
> > > should not prevent the other WG's from participating in an 802-hosted
> > interim.
> > > Every group would have a fair and equal chance and they get to choose
> > > their preference. They can opt in or opt out, but I don't think they
> > should
> > > have the right to spoil it for all the groups that do want to
> > participate.
> > > That seems really unfair to me !!! :-)
> > > As soon as we have a WG that doesn't want/need to hold interim
meetings
> > > we're finished. So why even bother ???
> > > Thanx, Buzz
> > > Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> > > Boeing SSG
> > > PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> > > Seattle, WA 98124-2207
> > > ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721
> > > email: everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> > > > From: Grow, Bob[SMTP:bob.grow@intel.com]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 9:17 AM
> > > > To: 'Geoff Thompson'; Rigsbee, Everett O
> > > > Cc: stds-802-sec; 802 @F2F Dawn S; 802 @F2F Darcel Moro
> > > > Subject: RE: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
> > > > Geoff's conclusion that I expressed an equivalent objection is
> > correct. The
> > > > fairness issue is fundamental to my concern on how this has
> > evolved. Use
> > > > of the good faith and credit of the 802 treasury is something that
> > has been
> > > > denied for interim meetings in the past and in the current plan is
> > inequitably applied.
> > > > --Bob
> > > > From: Geoff Thompson [ mailto:gthompso@nortelnetworks.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 3:03 PM
> > > > To: Rigsbee, Everett O
> > > > Cc: stds-802-sec; 802 @F2F Dawn S; 802 @F2F Darcel Moro
> > > > Subject: RE: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
> > > > Buzz-
> > > > I do understand that the PLAN is to net zero.
> > > > However, according to the motion, the 802 treasury is standing
behind
> > the
> > > > Orlando meeting to the tune of
> > > > 1) Guaranteeing that it will happen.
> > > > 2) Covering any shortfall
> > > > 3) ??
> > > > It is not providing the same for other meetings.
> > > > That is not equitable and is to the disadvantage of the roughly half
> > of the
> > > > 802 membership who depend on me to represent them.>
> > > > I believe that this is in line with the point that Bob Grow made
earlier.
> > > > Geoff
> > > > At 11:36 AM 12/4/00 -0800, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
> > > >>Geoff, I think you are misunderstanding the proposal. All of the
> > expenses
> > > >>for the Orlando meeting are being paid by the meeting fees collected
from
> > > >>the attendees (just as we do at a plenary meeting). The plan is to
> > tailor the
> > > >>expenses at the meeting to come out with net balance of $0. Thus
there
> > > >>will be no impact on IEEE 802 treasury. The only role being played
by
> > > >>IEEE 802 is to serve as the hosting body to make the meeting
> > arrangements
> > > >>and ensure that the Hotel agreement conforms to our stand policies.
The
> > > >>meeting fees collected from the attendees will cover all of the
> > actual expenses.
> > > >>It is possible to track and adjust expenses during the meeting so
> > that they
> > > >>exactly match the funds collected. It is NOT the case that the 802
> > Treasury
> > > >>is subsidizing one meeting and not the other.
> > > >>Thanx, Buzz
> > > >>Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> > > >>Boeing SSG
> > > >>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> > > >>Seattle, WA 98124-2207
> > > >>ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721
> > > >>email: everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> > > >>> From: Geoff Thompson[SMTP:gthompso@nortelnetworks.com]
> > > >>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 3:03 PM
> > > >>> To: jcarlo
> > > >>> Cc: IEEE802>
> > > >>> Subject: Re: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
> > > >>> In the current form I vote DISAPPROVE
> > > >>> I cannot support such a discriminatory allocation of funds, i.e.
to the
> > > >>> group consisting of
> > > >>> 802.11
> > > >>> 802.15
> > > >>> 802.16
> > > >>> and excluding
> > > >>> 802.1
> > > >>> 802.3
> > > >>> 802.17
> > > >>> If a more equitable arrangement is offered I would be more
inclined
> > to support it.
> > > >>> Geoff
> > > >>> At 04:39 PM 12/1/00 -0600, Jim Carlo wrote:
> > > >>>>UPDATED STATUS: NOTE CURRENT MOTION WOULD PASS - PLEASE VOTE
> > > >>>>Howard Frazier -
> > > >>>>Bob Grow -
> > > >>>>Paul Nikolich - Approve
> > > >>>>Buzz Rigsbee - Approve
> > > >>>>Vic Hayes - Approve with Comment
> > > >>>>Tony Jeffree - Approve
> > > >>>>Geoff Thompson -
> > > >>>>Bob Love - Do Not Approve
> > > >>>>Stuart Kerry - Approve
> > > >>>>Bob Heile - Approve
> > > >>>>Roger Marks - Approve
> > > >>>>Jim Carlo - Chair
> > > >>>>Stuart Kerry, who is here with me at the moment in the Netherlands
> > has also
> > > >>>>approved this motion. After the November 2000 motion the original
> > wireless
> > > >>>>hosts for dot11, dot15 and dot16 (ParkerVision and Intersil) have
> > not moved
> > > >>>>forward with hotel and meeting facilities because they were
> > convinced that
> > > >>>>802 was taking care of the organization and liability issues. Vic
Hayes
> > > >>>>I vote conditionally approve based on 802.17 being added to the
list of
> > > >>>>working groups to meet in Orlando. Otherwise I must vote NO.
This
> > motion
> > > >>>>failed to capture the spirit of the email discussion that directly
> > preceeded
> > > >>>>it. The previous e-mail suggests that 802.17 prefers Orlando to
> > Sacramento,
> > > >>>>directily contradicting Note 3. Will all those that have already
> > voted in
> > > >>>>support of this motion please send an e-mail to the reflector
> > stating that
> > > >>>>you support my requested change? Thank you. Bob Love
> > > >>>>SEC OFFICIAL EMAIL BALLOT 802.0/29Nov2000
> > > >>>>Issue Date: 29Nov2000 Closing Date: 3Dec2000
> > > >>>>Moved By: Buzz Rigsbee
> > > >>>>Move: Approve that IEEE 802 financially back-up the commitment for
the
> > > >>>>following Working Groups to hold their interim meeting in Orlando
on
> > > >>>>14-18May. The plan is this meeting will run on a break even
> > financial basis.
> > > >>>>802.11
> > > >>>>802.15
> > > >>>>802.16
> > > >>>>Notes:
> > > >>>>1) 802.11, 802.15, 802.16 are committed to attend this meeting.
> > > >>>>2) Bob Grow an I will need to have a financial report of this
interim
> > > >>>>meeting, to be prepared and presented at the SEC in July. Will
work
> > out the
> > > >>>>details in March.
> > > >>>>3) This note is not part of the motion, and outside the scope of
> > 802 SEC.
> > > >>>>However, 802.3, 802.1, 802.17 currently plan to hold a separate
> > meeting,>
> > > >>>>hosted by Intel in Sacramento during the week of May 28 - June 1.
> > Note that
> > > >>>>this is Memorial Day weekend. Note also that this motion does not
> > have any
> > > >>>>commitment on this meetings, just a possible plan, that might and
> > probably
> > > >>>>will change.
> > > >>>>Jim Carlo(jcarlo@ti.com) Cellular:1-214-693-1776
> > > >> Voice&Fax:1-214-853-5274>
> > > >>>>TI Fellow, Networking Standards at Texas Instruments
> > > >>>>Vice Chair, IEEE-SA Standards Board
> > > >>>>Chair, IEEE802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee
> > >
>
>
>
> Bob Heile
> Verizon Technology Organization
> Chair IEEE 802.15
> 40 Sylvan Road, Waltham, MA 02451
> Phone: 781-466-2057
> Fax: 781-466-2575
> Pager: 800-759-8888 PIN 1109355