| In my long email, I had commented on the second sentence being a problem. With Jame’s email, I assume both sentences will be deleted from what the EC will consider Friday. So, I would withdraw my comment about the second sentence in my long email if the EC is considering a different document than James proposed in https://ieee802.org/secmail/msg26671.html. The issue of member being both voting and non-voting per the definitions; but much of our text assuming that member and voting member are synonyms remains a problem.
—Bob
Right. I was trying to check it. my recollection was that at one point the fee for a single ballot was less than being a member. But your point about fulfilling openness is taken. Reading the below, are you opposing to the deletion, or supporting it - since the text to be deleted says ' Membership in the IEEE SA will also allow participants to join the Standards Association ballot group' - I could see you thinking that the EXISTING text (to be deleted) suggests that the only way to join the SA ballot group is to be a memer of the SA -----Original Message----- From: ROBERT GROW < bobgrow@cox.net> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 10:15 AM To: George Zimmerman < george@cmephyconsulting.com> Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSubject: Re: [802SEC] Updates to proposed WG P&P George, As long a I can remember, the per ballot fee has been the same as IEEE membership + IEEE SA membership. If someone can’t pay a per ballot fee then there is a bigger problem. I expect on some projects, someone that would be an interested party may not be qualified to join IEEE. The per ballot fee option is there to fulfill the principle of openness. (BTW, ieee.org is down right now and so I can’t check or copy the text on joining.) —Bob On Nov 18, 2021, at 9:55 AM, George Zimmerman <george@cmephyconsulting.com> wrote:
Bob - I know the rules say you can pay a per-ballot fee; however, I haven't checked this year, but when we did the 802.3cg SA ballot in 2019, I checked into the per-ballot fee option. It was essentially closed off. There was no easy way to pay. AND, when we inquired, it was the same (or more, I forget) than joining SA if you were an IEEE member already. Maybe they've fixed that with the new myballot? Has anyone checked?
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> On Behalf Of ROBERT GROW
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 9:41 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Updates to proposed WG P&P
James,
I find this misleading. Unless I’ve missed a process change, SA Ballots can also be participated in via payment of a per-ballot fee. People may infer from the second sentence that IEEE SA membership is the only way to join the ballot group.
—Bob
On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:47 PM, James P. K. Gilb <000008e8b69871c2-dmarc-request@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
All
I forgot a couple of suggested changes for 4.2 Voting Membership
The reviewers suggested deleting:
"Although not a requirement for membership in the Working Group, participants are encouraged to join the IEEE, IEEE SA and the IEEE Computer Society. Membership in the IEEE SA will also allow participants to join the Standards Association ballot group."
as it is not a requirement and so really doesn't belong in the P&P (we could put it in an OM).
Also, editorial correction:
"A recent Interim Session is any of the Interim Sessions after the first of the four most recent Plenary Sessions."
(i.e., make the second two instances of Session plural)
An updated proposed P&P with these changes has been uploaded to:
https://mentor.ieee.org/802-ec/dcn/21/ec-21-0280-01-00EC-proposed-ieee-802-lmsc-wg-p-p.doc
James Gilb
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