Hi Ronny,
We can have more discussion on this topic, better in a different email thread. Currently there are TXOP return mechanism
in both mode 1 and mode 2. I think STA already can return the control back to AP in current TXOP. It may already can address all or most your requirements.
Regards,
Yunbo
发件人:
용호
김 [mailto:ronny1004@xxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2022年11月17日
11:05
收件人: Liyunbo <liyunbo@xxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBE]
答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] RDG/More PPDU subfield (CID 11827)
Hi Yunbo,
Whether to allow a STA’s RDG in TXS would be a different topic. I am sorry
that I missed the chance to discuss on the resolution of 12421. However, I see clear value to support RDG in TXS. Some applications, such as VR, require immediate feedback. A STA can send a data frame with RDG to give the AP to transmit (application’s
response) data back to the STA within the TXS shared TXOP. Similar situation also happens with mode 2. For the TXOP holder issue, of course AP is a TXOP holder of whole TXOP but because it shares the part of the TXOP with the STA, the STA can be treated as
the TXOP holder of the shared TXOP period. Otherwise, the STA can not successively transmit PPDUs with SIFS separation without channel contention nor recover transmit errors within the shared TXOP.
In the next round of comment submission, I would like to continue discussion on this issue.
Best Regards,
Ronny
Hi Ronny,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I mentioned that there is a typo in the sentence of my previous email that you are discussing.
Actually, you are discussing a different topic. Whether a target STA could do RDG. Please see the resolution of CID 12421,
the target STA shall not involve into RDG procedure. So the target STA neither a RD initiator, nor a RD responder. Also, the TXS target STA only share the TXOP, it is not the TXOP holder, the TXOP holder is still the AP.
12421
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To improve efficiency of triggered TXOP Sharing feature, it's needed to allow reverse direction(RD) between non-AP STA and non-AP STA. In mode 1, RDG/More PPDU is used to indicate to terminate TXOP sharing.
However, when RD is used this bit can be used for RD. More data bit or More data bit with RDG/More PPDU bit shall be used for this purpose.
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Please make the following changes to allow reverse direction.
During the time allocated by an associated AP, the non-AP EHT STA may transmit non-TB PPDUs to the AP or another STA if the TXOP Sharing Mode subfield value is 2. The non-AP EHT STA may become a RD initiator during the TXOP sharing allocation. The non-AP EHT
STA may transmit a QoS Data or QoS Null frame to an associated AP to terminate the allocated time, if both the More Data subfield in frame control field is 0 and the RDG/More PPDU subfield in CAS Control subfield of the HE variant HT Control field is equal
to 0.
NOTE 1--For example, the other STA can be a peer STA of a peer-to-peer link.
During the time allocated by an associated AP, the non-AP EHT STA may transmit non-TB PPDUs and only to its associated AP if the TXOP Sharing Mode subfield value is 1. The non-AP EHT STA may become a RD initiator during the TXOP sharing allocation.
|
Resolution approved
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REJECTED
There is a lack of motivation to support RDG in MU-RTS TXS, especially due to the potential complexity.
1) For mode 1, RDG is not needed. Since the original TXOP holder is an AP, we don’t need a non-AP STA to transfer the control to the AP through RDG, in addition, TXOP return also works.
2) For mode 2, if STA1 transfers the AP’s TXOP to STA2, it will cause a fairness issue especially as STA2 is not associated with the AP. Another problem is that when STA 2 is not associated with the AP, STA 2 may set the basic NAV by the AP, so it can not accept
the STA 1’s RDG.
|
Regards,
Yunbo
Hi Yunbo,
In my previous email, I forgot to mention that RDG/More PPDU is not enough to indicate the termination of TXS as I commented in CID 12421. Since the STA can work as a RD initiator within
the shared TXOP period, the STA can set RDG/More PPDU to 1 for RD not TXS termination.
Thanks,
Ronny
Hi Yunbo,
I think what you mentioned 'a target STA becomes a RDG responder' in your previous email is wrong:
Once the STA is a target STA in MU-RTS TXS frame, the RDG/More PPDU subfield in HT/VHT/CAS Control field have the same meaning, which is return the allocated TXS
time period to AP. A non-AP STA will be a TXS target STA and RDG responder at the same time.
A STA becomes a RDG initiator when it transmits a frame and during a TXS shared period, the STA transmits a frame.
When a STA is a target STA in MU-RTS TXS frame, because the STA can be a TXOP holder within the shared TXOP it can transmit a frame. Therefore the STA can be a RDG initiator not a RDG responder.
I have submitted related comment CID 12421.
12421
|
To improve efficiency of triggered TXOP Sharing feature, it's needed to allow reverse direction(RD) between non-AP STA and non-AP STA. In mode
1, RDG/More PPDU is used to indicate to terminate TXOP sharing. However, when RD is used this bit can be used for RD. More data bit or More data bit with RDG/More PPDU bit shall be used for this purpose.
|
Please make the following changes to allow reverse direction.
During the time allocated by an associated AP, the non-AP EHT STA may transmit non-TB PPDUs to the AP or another STA if the TXOP Sharing Mode subfield value is 2. The non-AP EHT STA may become a RD initiator during the TXOP sharing allocation. The non-AP EHT
STA may transmit a QoS Data or QoS Null frame to an associated AP to terminate the allocated time, if both the More Data subfield in frame control field is 0 and the RDG/More PPDU subfield in CAS Control subfield of the HE variant HT Control field is equal
to 0.
NOTE 1--For example, the other STA can be a peer STA of a peer-to-peer link.
During the time allocated by an associated AP, the non-AP EHT STA may transmit non-TB PPDUs and only to its associated AP if the TXOP Sharing Mode subfield value is 1. The non-AP EHT STA may become a RD initiator during the TXOP sharing allocation.
|
Best Regards,
Ronny Yongho Kim
Hi Alfred,
OK, I see that sentence. I didn’t notice the different variant of HT control type when I prepared the text in 35.2.1.2, my mistake. The signaling could works for all
variants of HT Control. We should remove the condition in 35.2.1.2. What’s your opinion?
Regards,
Yunbo
发件人: Alfred Asterjadhi [mailto:asterjadhi@xxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2022年11月16日
23:42
收件人: Liyunbo <liyunbo@xxxxxxxxxx>
抄送:
STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE]
答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] RDG/More PPDU subfield (CID 11827)
Hi Yunbo,
Thanks for the follow up. Not according to the TGbe draft. Please check 35.2.1.2.
Hi Alfred,
Thanks for sharing your opinions. The meaning of RDG/More PPDU only depends on the role of the STA. Once the STA is a target STA in MU-RTS TXS frame, the RDG/More PPDU
subfield in HT/VHT/CAS Control field have the same meaning, which is return the allocated TXS time period to AP. A non-AP STA will be a TXS target STA and RDG responder at the same time.
Regards,
Yunbo
发件人: Alfred Asterjadhi [mailto:asterjadhi@xxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2022年11月16日
23:29
收件人: Liyunbo <liyunbo@xxxxxxxxxx>
抄送:
STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE]
答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] RDG/More PPDU subfield (CID 11827)
I dont think the comment is saying that those variants are forbidden. The comment is saying that the RDG/More PPDU subfield is found in the HT variant, the VHT variant and the CAS Control field but
only when carried in the CAS control field is it used for the purposes of MU RTS TXS triggering (ref some subclause in 35), When carried in the HT/VT variants it continues having the legacy meaning.
Hi Jinyoung,
Thanks for deferring this CID, and providing the explanation. But an EHT STA can support HT/VHT/HE/EHT PPDU, so no reason to disallow HT/VHT variant of HT control. So I don’t
agree with the comment.
Regards,
Yunbo
Hi, Yunbo and Abdel,
RDG/More PPDU subfield is in HT control for HT/VHT variant, and in CAS control among A-Control for HE variant as below.
The target STA in a MU-RTS TXS Trigger frame, that is newly defined, is an EHT STA. So RDG/More PPDU subfield for the target STA in a MU-RTS TXS Trigger frame is present in the
CAS Control subfield as below resolution.
CID
|
Commenter
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PP.LL
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Comment
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Proposed Change
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Resolution
|
11827
|
9.2.4.6.1
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122.04
|
This new interpretation is only valid when the RDG/More PPDU bit is included in the CAS Control. Add a note to the table specifying that the Target STA case is present when bit is in CAS control as defined
in x.y.
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As in comment.
|
Revised
Agree with the commenter and just add note below.
For your information, other explain about the subfield is described in REVme as below: ‘In a non-HE HT STA, the RDG/More PPDU subfield and the AC Constraint subfield are present in the HTC
field. In an HE STA, the RDG/More PPDU subfield and the AC Constraint subfield are present in the CAS Control subfield.’
To TGbe Editor:
Please add the note below the Table 9-17.
‘NOTE: RDG/More PPDU subfield for the target STA in a MU-RTS TXS Trigger frame is present in the CAS Control subfield (See 9.2.4.6a.7 (CAS Control)).
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If you have other opinion, please let me know.
Best regards,
Jinyoung
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