Re: [STDS-802-16] Draft PAR for 802.16h (License-exempt coexisten ce)

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"In either case, it is worthwhile to keep 802.16h flexible to address these areas.

I believe it may be useful to remove the word "fixed" just for this reason."

Please look once again, the PAR title has two parts: the 802.16-2004 title and

the ammendment title.The word "fixed" is embedded in the title of 802.16-2004.

We cannot remove that.

When another 802.16 ammendment will come out, say 802.16-2006, the title will be

probably changed to reflect 802.16e existence. Please read once again the Phil

response, he gives ideas for the future scennarios.

Thanks to Phil and Marianna for the clarifications. I can see why my proposal 2

of referring to 802.16e would not make sense. I withdraw that. But let's look at proposal 1 again.

And I want to broaden the discussion to use of LE for non-fixed / mobile use.

Phil writes that "Unless we are considering starting a new project for 802.16 LE

mobility in the near future, we are probably best served leaving the 'fixed' in the proposed scope."

I think some such consideration is worthwhile.

There have been discussions that 802.16 can serve a role

in the new proposed unlicensed use of unused TV spectrum below 1 GHz.

This is for both fixed and personal/portable devices. And there seems to be

interest in supporting portable/mobile in unlicensed spectrum in general.

The current task groups (upto 802.16g) do not address this. So it has to

802.16h (LE co-existence) or some new task group.

In either case, it is worthwhile to keep 802.16h flexible to address these areas.

I believe it may be useful to remove the word "fixed" just for this reason.

( Unless I have misunderstood and the flexibility of working with

some future TG can still be achieved even if the word "fixed"

is in the title. That would be great since this is already in LB and

we won't have to mess with that .)

Separately, it would be useful to learn the amount of support the group

has to work towards support of portable/mobile devices in LE bands.

If you believe 802.16 has a role, some activity is clearly needed

whatever be the level of co-ordination with other 802 groups.

- Shankar

See my comments in-line.

----- Original Message -----

From: <shankar@RESEARCH.ATT.COM>

To: <STDS-802-16@listserv.ieee.org>

Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 3:13 PM

Subject: [STDS-802-16] Draft PAR for 802.16h (License-exempt coexistence)

> Folks,
>
> The msg below from Roger describes an 802.16 Letter Ballot that
> closes on Sept 22:
> "To forward, to the IEEE 802 LMSC Executive Committee, IEEE
> 802.16-04/56 <http://ieee802.org/16/docs/04/80216-04_56.pdf>
> (Draft PAR and Five Criteria for an IEEE 802.16 Project on
> License-Exempt Coexistence)".
>
> The License-Exempt study group was a good idea, and
> moving this up to a full task group is also a good idea.
> I almost voted to approve this instantly, but then
> noticed a constraint that was added to the title
> recently. I am sorry to have missed the
> Seoul meeting and bringing up this matter now.
> I would like to know the reason
> for the added restriction on the PAR title.
> I would also like feedback on the two items
> proposed at the end.
>
> The http://www.ieee802.org/16/le/docs/80216le-04_06.pdf
> document indicates that the word "fixed" was added to
> the title of the new PAR which currently reads as follows:
> Amendment to IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan
> Area Networks - Part 16: Air Interface for Fixed Broadband
> Wireless Access Systems - Improved Coexistence in License-Exempt Bands
>
> I realize that 802.16h will be an amendment to 802.16-2004
> which is only for fixed. Also that even in 802.16e,
> license-exempt is limited to fixed use. But there
> is an increasing level of interest in
> innovative use of license-exempt bands for fixed and
> non-fixed terminals. For example, one big development is the
> proposed unlicensed use of sub-1 GHz TV bands in the US
> for fixed and non-fixed. And others may follow.
> One would expect that non-fixed, whether it is
> tetherless or nomadic or portable or mobile
> will start being used in license-exempt bands.
>
> In the interest of working towards some of
> these new developments, let me propose that:
>
> 1. The word "fixed" should be removed from the
> 802.16h PAR title? Hopefully this will maintain
> some flexibility in addressing non-fixed
> use of license-exempt spectrum.
>

[Phil Barber] The current IEEE 802.16-2004 document supports fixed (as defined in the standard, which may include nomadic use) service in LE bands. 802.16e PAR specifies application in licensed bands only. Since any LE TG would be an amendment document to IEEE 802.16-2004, as modified and amended by 802.16e, 16f, and 16g, the contemplated LE TG would be similarly constrained until such time as a new PAR defining LE 802.16 mobility service is considered and approved. Until that time, it would be out-of-scope for any LE TG to address functionality not supported in the current or pending standard projects. Leave the word 'fixed' in; take it out. It makes no difference. Presence of the term does not affect the inherited restriction. Unless we are considering starting a new project for 802.16 LE mobility in the near future, we are probably best served leaving the 'fixed' in the proposed scope.

> 2. Reference to 802.16e should be added in the PAR (similar
> to the 802.16g PAR) to further the potential use
> of licensed-exempt for non-fixed.

[Phil Barber] Same as above. Little point referencing an amendment that has no LE element to it. Just to emphasis the point, it would be a very bad idea to try to define 802.16 mobility LE remediation techniques through the LE TG when we have not even begun to consider 802.16 LE mobility features, function, and behavior.

>
> Thanks.
>
> - Shankar
>
> =======================================
> N. K. Shankaranarayanan
> AT&T Labs-Research
> 180 Park Avenue
> Room B255
> Florham Park, NJ 07932
> Ph: (973) 236-6911
> Fax: (973) 360-5877 (pls notify if faxing)
> email: shankar@research.att.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger B. Marks [mailto:r.b.marks@ieee.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 5:43 PM
> To: stds-802-16@ieee.org
> Subject: +++IEEE 802.16 Letter Ballot #15 (on LE PAR) is now open+++
>
>
> To: IEEE 802.16 Reflector
> bcc: IEEE 802.16 Working Group Members
> <http://ieee802.org/16/members.html>
>
> IEEE 802.16 Working Group Letter Ballot #15 is now open, through 22
> September 2004. The ballot is on the following question:
>
> "To forward, to the IEEE 802 LMSC Executive Committee, IEEE
> 802.16-04/56 <http://ieee802.org/16/docs/04/80216-04_56.pdf>
> (Draft PAR and Five Criteria for an IEEE 802.16 Project on
> License-Exempt Coexistence)".
>
> The decision to carry out this letter ballot was made at the Closing
> Plenary of IEEE 802.16's Session #33, following discussions within
> IEEE 802.16's Study Group on License-Exempt Coexistence
> <http://ieee802.org/16/le>.
>
> The announcement document:
> Title: "IEEE 802.16 Working Group Letter Ballot #15: Announcement"
> Document Number: IEEE 802.16-04/57
> URL: <http://ieee802.org/16/docs/04/80216-04_57.pdf>
>
> details the procedures. It also tells you how to participate and
> explains the Members' obligation to do so. "Membership shall be lost
> if two consecutive, or two of any three consecutive, Working Group
> letter ballots for which the member was eligible are not returned or
> are returned with an abstention other than for 'lack of technical
> expertise'." You can check your recent balloting history:
>         <http://ieee802.org/16/tge/ballot14/report14.html>.
>         <http://ieee802.org/16/tgd/ballot13/report13.html>
>
> Don't forget the deadline of 22 September 2004.
>
> The ballot submission form is available at:
>         http://ieee802.org/16/le/ballot15/ballotform15.html
>
> Results will be posted, as they are received, at:
>         http://ieee802.org/16/le/ballot15/report15.html
>
> Roger
>
>
> --
>
> Dr. Roger B. Marks <mailto:marks@nist.gov> +1 303 497 3037 National
> Institute of Standards and Technology/Boulder, CO, USA Chair, IEEE
> 802.16 Working Group on Broadband Wireless Access
>         <http://WirelessMAN.org>
>