Re: AW: AW: 1550nm Serial PMD Question
Rich,
History has shown that 802.3 only moves in order of magnitude steps.
However, as P802.3ae is addressing metro applications to 40km with
multiple solutions (LAN PHY and WAN PHY), the link aggregation standard
is applicable to 10GE and a competitive solution, OC-768 exists, I would
not be surprised to see a 40GE effort spring up in the near future. It
may not require any 802.3 standards activity since all the necessary
standards and technology would already be in place.
Best Regards,
Rich
--
"Booth, Bradley" wrote:
>
> Currently there has not been a call for interest (CFI) for 40GbE, so there
> is no one working on it. Roy's reference is to OC-768 which does not apply
> to this standardization effort.
>
> Cheers,
> Brad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich_Hernandez@xxxxxxxx [mailto:Rich_Hernandez@xxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 5:56 PM
> To: rabynum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; krahn@xxxxxxxxxx; stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxx;
> marshall@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: AW: AW: 1550nm Serial PMD Question
>
> Roy, you mentioned 40G. Is there any information on plans for a 40GE
> standard? Is there a working group looking at 40GE?
>
> Hendrich (Rich) Hernandez
> Dell High Volume Systems- SNAC
> Bldg. RR5 / MS 8516
> Tel: (512) 723-1957
> Fax: (512) 723-1947
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roy Bynum [mailto:rabynum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 2:57 PM
> To: Rahn, Juergen (Juergen); stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxx; 'Marshall
> Eisenberg'
> Subject: Re: AW: AW: 1550nm Serial PMD Question
>
> Rahn,
>
> The jitter specification has to do with multiplexing one signal payload,
> along with other signal payloads into higher bandwidth payload
> systems. You are right, clock tolerance has very little to do with optical
> multiplexing and should not be an issue in a native DWDM service
> environment.
>
> I have yet to see an explanation as to why a 100 PPM clock recovery system
> is more expensive than a 20 PPM clock recovery system. If you use the
> argument set by the legacy SONET standards body, the receivers for 10GbE
> would be less expensive if the clock were specified at 20 PPM. I have yet
> to hear from any of the component vendors to support that argument. All of
> the component vendors seem to believe that the SONET/SDH version is
> slightly higher in cost.
>
> As for optical parameters, I have yet to see anyone provide a BER
> specification at the pure optical level. All of the SONET/SDH overhead
> bytes that are really required to provide performance monitoring at the
> electrical signal level of the optical channel are included in 10GbE. What
> is not included are the things that have historically created
> inter-operability issues between vendors. As for finding transponders that
> could support the specification, I sure that if you talk to someone that
> has been around SONET a long time, that finding reliable optical
> transponders for the early OC192 systems was an issue. As many of the
> people that wrote the specification were transponder engineers, I have more
> faith in their work than I do in what a legacy SONET/SDH that wants to sell
> OC768 transmission gear has to say.
>
> 10GbE is a stand alone optical protocol. The 10GbE WAN PHY will easily
> support transduction from the IEEE optical specification to the more
> expensive ITU specification. It will also support the re-insertion of the
> vendor specific overhead bytes in that process. It does not easily support
> multiplexing up to OC768 or any other 40G signaling system.
>
> Of course, with 40G you have savings of only a 2 to 1 or 4 to 1 in
> bandwidth to equipment cost over standard SONET/SDH 10G systems. You also
> have the issue of being able to support only half the number of 40G
> wavelengths compared with current 10G technology which gives you only twice
> the bandwidth per fiber. You also have the shorter optical amplifier
> distances with 40G, which adds to the implementation costs. It may be that
> 40G and the high end optical systems may have a much higher deployment
> costs per bandwidth than 10G.
>
> Time will tell about the actual cost of deployment and support.
>
> Thank you,
> Roy Bynum
>
> At 01:04 PM 5/7/01 +0200, Rahn, Juergen (Juergen) wrote:
> >Hi,
> >The jitter has nothing to do with optical muxing. You can always use a bad
> >electrical signal in WDM environment, however to really doing some more
> than
> >only point to point links the Ethernet (the "electrical" part as jitter and
> >clock tolerance) have also take into account that you are may need to
> >regenerate and for this this spec is not suited. Here it should be noted
> >that for our experience the CDR modules for Ethernet clock tolerance of
> >+/-100ppm are currently not less expensive but generate higher cost than
> the
> >SONET specified version. So in this respect the Ethernet is of more
> >expensive nature and I do not understand your point for the "low cost
> >Ethernet".
> >The second aspect are the optical parameters. The Ethernet is currently
> >specified in a way that no easy verification if an receive signal is in
> spec
> >is possible. Something like this is not in line with the goal for ensuring
> >interworking and low operation cost and in the past the operators have
> >insisted on simple operation as operation cost is the main part of their
> >expenses. So in this respect the 10GE interface spec as currently written
> >will be a cost driver. In addition there is one small issue with
> >availability of components as if you look around the market you find no
> >single transponder supporting the specs as written in the current draft (At
> >least I searched around and did not find a single unit fulfilling that
> >parameter set). There are of course a lot of marketing slides around in the
> >world but on verifiable technical details there is a big gap . (May be
> >fulfilling more demanding specs will lower cost but normally it is just the
> >other way around.) This is valid already for the current spec.
> >For WDM interworking something in addition is needed. You where mentioning
> >the ITU grid. So at least what you need is a transmitter wavelength as
> >specified in the
> >If you want to connect the interface as currently specked connected to a
> >WDM system you are limited to the power budget Including mux and demux as
> >given by the interface. In this case you have to note that there will be a
> >penalty in addition due to Xtalk at the de- mux. This penalty however is
> >difficult to be considered as the power specifications in 10 GE are not
> >precisely given. This situation will be worse in case of optical amplifiers
> >which are normally required and used in WDM. In case of this the optical
> >specs have to be amended anyway as the current specification will lead to
> >unknown optical performance when using optical amplification. If an optical
> >spec that would allow WDM interworking would be developed it will not be
> >different from a similar SDH spec in this respect.
> >It should be noted that the only transversal compatible WDM spec is
> >currently in G.959.1 while everything else on WDM is longitudinal
> >compatible. So if you want to have transversal compatible optical WDM
> >interface specifications you should use this G.959.1 and you are done. If
> >you will do something different it is just different, not standard, but
> not
> >automatically cheaper.
> >Regards Juergen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > ----------
> > > Von: Roy Bynum[SMTP:rabynum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Mai 2001 01:09
> > > An: Rahn, Juergen (Juergen); stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxx; 'Marshall
> > > Eisenberg'
> > > Betreff: Re: AW: 1550nm Serial PMD Question
> > >
> > >
> > > Rahn,
> > >
> > > It might be noted that the jitter specification that the ITU is applying
> > > is
> > > to allow all signals to be multiplexed at the electrical level, not just
> > > the optical level. No one in ITU has considered an "optical
> multiplexing
> > > only" jitter specification. Using the "Class B" regenerator
> specification
> > >
> > > with a plezio-isosynchronous timing instead of a full isosynchronous and
> a
> > >
> > > relaxed timing specification would allow non-TDM multiplexed optical
> > > services and non-"digital wrapper" DWDM wavelength services. The larger
> > > vendors are attempting to maintain their dominance and high margins for
> > > transmission equipment. I expect that ITU is very upset about 802.3ae
> > > being a non-electrical multiplexable optical channel.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Roy Bynum
> > >
> > > At 09:37 AM 5/4/01 +0200, Rahn, Juergen (Juergen) wrote:
> > >
> > > >Hi,
> > > >The spec is indeed not in line to the "ITU Grid". However it should be
> > > >noted that beside this small pree condition of supporting particular
> > > >wavelength there are a lot further specs required that are not at all
> in
> > > the
> > > >Ethernet document. This means this interface in the current spec is not
> > > >suited for direct WDM also. For WDM you would in this case require a
> real
> > > >SDH/SONET interface. In this respect it should also be noted that one
> > > reason
> > > >(beside the optical parameters that do not support effective
> > > transmission)
> > > >is the way the jitter is specified as this prevents the cascadability
> of
> > > 3 R
> > > >regens which are needed in WDM networks of larger dimensions.
> > > >Regards Juergen Rahn
> > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > Von: Marshall Eisenberg[SMTP:marshall@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Mai 2001 16:39
> > > > > An: stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxx
> > > > > Betreff: 1550nm Serial PMD Question
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > All,
> > > > > A while back there were rumors that the 1550nm Serial PMD would be
> ITU
> > > > > Grid
> > > > > Spec compliant, making it DWDM 'ready' I've downloaded draft D3.0
> > > and
> > > > > cannot find any references or further notations. Can anyone shed
> any
> > > > > light
> > > > > on this or point out the relevant section in the draft?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Marshall Eisenberg
> > > > > Director of product marketing
> > > > > Foundry Networks Inc.
> > > > > 2100 Gold Street
> > > > > P.O. Box 649100
> > > > > San Jose, CA 95164-9100
> > > > > (408) 586-1754 direct
> > > > > (408) 586-1900 fax
> > > > > (408) 398-0014 mobile
---------------------------------------------------------
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