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I am OK. Thanks, Best regards, Sungcheol Chang, Ph.D. Mobile Access Technology Research Team, ETRI From: Ming-Tuo ZHOU [mailto:mingtuo@nict.com.sg] Hi Sungcheol, How about this one? Data packets are exchanged between the two HR-MSs directly or passing through another HR-MS. (Anh Tuan, what’s your opinion?) Best, Ming-Tuo From: Chang, Sungcheol [mailto:scchang@etri.re.kr] Hi Ming-tuo, I can understand what you describe based on your kind explanation. I agree that forwarding function in 2-hop direct communication is different from the “forwarding HR-MS” in “HR-MS forwarding to network” in principle when we highlight the definitions of direct communication(17.2.2) and forwarding HR-MS(17.2.3). During DC RG activities, “forwarding HR-MS” described in 17.2.3 is agreed and there has been no discussion about terminology of “forwarding HR-MS” for 2-hop direct communication. If we use the same terminology in both sections, there will be some confusion. It’s better to introduce new terminology for direct communication, which is different from “forwarding HR-MS” described in 17.2.3.” but we have not made consensus on new terminology. In addition, 16n try to develop “relay forwarding” and “local forwarding” functions which a infrastructure node (including relay station) forwards packets between two HR-MSs without passing through HR-BS. It’s why I support Anh Tuan’s text proposal. There are a lot of sentences using “forwarding” in 16n SRD, but the sentences describe different functions. The confusion occurs due to this usage of “forwarding” word. If you still want to put a sentence, I propose a modification of it as the followings: [M.T.: I want to remove the first sentence because there is no information for one-hop operation. For new terminology, we need to make consensus. I have tried to put new terminology for the HR-MS between two HR-MSs in SRD but I failed. (Note: an HR-MS between a source HR-MS and a sink HR-MS in two-hop direct communication is called “DM Repeater”, Direct Mode Repeater, in TETRA system) Best regards, Sungcheol Chang, Ph.D. Mobile Access Technology Research Team, ETRI From: Ming-Tuo ZHOU [mailto:mingtuo@nict.com.sg] Dear Sungcheol, Thanks for your support regarding the subsection title. In SRD, description of 2-hop HR-MS is as follows: 6.1.3.1.2 Two-hopHR-MS shall support forwarding of user data and control signaling between an HR-MS and one or more HR-MSs. From above, you can see in order to support 2-hop HR-MS DC, a “forwarding HR-MS” is present. Anyway, in my understanding, the function of this “Forwarding HR-MS” is different from the “Forwarding HR-MS” in “Forwarding to Network”. The difference depends on technical proposal I think. If you’d like to use another word instead of “forwarding HR-MS” here, could you please suggest one? I’d like to follow your suggestions if everyone is fine. Thank you. Best, Ming-Tuo From: Chang, Sungcheol [mailto:scchang@etri.re.kr] Dear Ming-tuo, Based on your description about overview and general description, I can agree using “general description” with you. However, a forwarding HR-MS appears in your text proposal when you define direct communication. I don’t quietly understand what you want to say about with the sentence because we have another section to describe forwarding HR-MS. It seems that the sentence contains redundant description. I am not comfortable with your text proposal and I support Anh Tuan’s description. Otherwise, please don’t remove all the additional text proposals from the DC RG harmonized text. Best regards, Sungcheol Chang, Ph.D. Mobile Access Technology Research Team, ETRI From: Ming-Tuo ZHOU [mailto:mingtuo@nict.com.sg] Dear 16n folks, Sungcheol, and Anh Tuan, In teleconference of 16n on April 25 2011, we discussed the proposal of harmonized text from C80216n-rg-11/0054 and agreed on many points. Thank you very much. The two points need more discussion are: 1) the subsection title: “overview” VS “general description” 2) the sentence in red describing HR-MS DC. Sungcheol is like to keep “overview”, however, Ming-Tuo thinks since this subsection is to provide fundamental and basic description of HR-MS DC, so he prefers to use “general description”. In Ming-Tuo’s opinion, “Overview” is comprehensive description and means that we may need to describe all aspects of HR-MS DC, so it does not suit the purpose of this subsection. (Sungcheol, do you still insist to use “overview”?) Anh Tuan thinks the wording “without passing through an infrastructure station” includes both cases of 1-hop and 2-hop HR-MS DC. Ming-Tuo agrees on this point. In following text, he describes the two cases (one-hop and two-hop HR-MS DC) separately and think this sentence is more precise in description of HR-MS DC. (Anh Tuan, do you agree the new sentence?) The text currently looks as follows: 17.2.2 Direct communication between HR-MSs 17.2.2.1 Overview [M.T.: General Description] In HR-MS direct communication, the two communicating HR-MSs are the source and the sink of data. The data packets are passed from upper layers to MAC at the source HR-MS and back to upper layers at the sink HR-MS. [A.T.: Data packets are exchanged between the two HR-MSs without passing through an infrastructure station]. [M.T.: In one-hop HR-MS direct communication, data packets are directly exchanged between the two HR-MSs without passing through any other stations. In two-hop HR-MS direct communication, data packets are exchanged between the two HR-MSs by passing through a forwarding HR-MS.] HR-MS direct communication is applicable when 1) the two HR-MSs are in coverage of and are associated to an HR infrastructure station; 2) one HR-MS is in coverage of and associated to an HR infrastructure station, while the other HR-MS is out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations; 3) the two HR-MSs are out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations. Resource for HR-MS direct communication can be allocated by the HR infrastructure station for cases (1) and (2). When HR infrastructure station does not exist (case 3), resource allocation of HR-MS direct communication is [TBD]. 17.2.3 HR-MS Forwarding to network 17.2.3.1 Overview [M.T.: General Description] In HR-MS Forwarding to Network, an HR-MS forwards user data and control signaling between an HR-MS and an HR infrastructure station. The user data and control signaling do not go through higher layer at the forwarding HR-MS. The origination and termination of the user data and control signaling are at the forwarded HR-MS and the HR infrastructure station respectively and vice versa. HR-MS Forwarding to Network is applicable when 1) the forwarded HR-MS and the forwarding HR-MS are in coverage of and associated to an infrastructure station; 2) the forwarding HR-MS is in coverage of and associated to an HR infrastructure station, while the forwarded HR-MS is out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations. Resource for HR-MS Forwarding to Network can be allocated by the HR infrastructure station with which the forwarding HR-MS is associated. 17.3.2 Direct communication between HR-MSs 17.3.2.1 Overview [M.T.: General Description] Same as 17.2.2.1 17.3.3 HR-MS Forwarding to network 17.3.3.1 Overview [M.T.: General Description] Same as 17.2.3.1. Best regards, Ming-Tuo From: Ming-Tuo ZHOU [mailto:mingtuo@NICT.COM.SG] Dear 16n participants, I prepared a proposal of harmonized text regarding HR-MS DC and HR-MS FTN as shown in C80216n-rg-11/0054r1. The text is to be updated based on comments from Eldad, Sungcheol, Anh Tuan, and Hai-Guang. There are some lists of options for wording in the text proposal, they are to be discussed and decided by this email reflector and/or the 2nd CC of 16n DC RG. If you have comments, please reply this email or/and participate discussion of the 2nd CC of 16n DC RG. For your information, the 2nd CC of 16n DC RG will be held April 25, 7pm Eastern US, 4pm Pacific, 8am Japan/Korea. Telephone Dial-in is +1-866-457-0015 pin 8109. The text is as follows. ************************************************ 17.2.2 Direct communication between HR-MSs 17.2.2.1 Overview In HR-MS direct communication, the two communicating HR-MSs are the source and the sink of data. The data packets are passed from upper layers to MAC at the source HR-MS and back to upper layers at the sink HR-MS. [A.T.: Data packets are exchanged between the two HR-MSs without passing through an infrastructure station]. [M.T.: Data packets are directly exchanged between the two HR-MSs without passing through any other stations.] HR-MS direct communication is applicable when 1) the two HR-MSs are in coverage of and are [Z.E.: attached] [A.T.: associated] to an HR infrastructure station; 2) one HR-MS is in coverage of and [Z.E.: attached] [A.T.: associated] to an HR infrastructure station, while the other HR-MS is out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations; 3) the two HR-MSs are out of coverage of [M.T.: and are not associated to] any HR infrastructure stations. Resource for HR-MS direct communication [is] [S.C.: may be] allocated by the HR infrastructure station for cases (1) and (2). When HR infrastructure station does not exist (case 3), resource allocation of HR-MS direct communication is [TBD]. 17.2.3 HR-MS Forwarding to network 17.2.3.1 Overview In HR-MS Forwarding to Network, an HR-MS forwards user data and control signaling between an HR-MS and an HR infrastructure station. The user data and control signaling do not go through higher layer [M.T.: at the forwarding HR-MS]. The origination and termination of the user data and control signaling are at the [Z.E.: end] [A.T.: forwarded] HR-MS and the HR infrastructure station respectively and vice versa. HR-MS Forwarding to Network is applicable when 1) the [Z.E.: end] [A.T.: forwarded] HR-MS and the forwarding HR-MS are in coverage of and [Z.E.: attached] [A.T.: associated] to an infrastructure station; 2) the forwarding HR-MS is in coverage of [A.T.: and associated to] an HR infrastructure station, while the [A.T.: forwarded] HR-MS is out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations. Resource for HR-MS Forwarding to Network [is] [S.C.: may be] allocated by the HR infrastructure station with which the forwarding HR-MS is associated. 17.3.2 Direct communication between HR-MSs 17.3.2.1 Overview Same as 17.2.2.1. 17.3.3 HR-MS Forwarding to network 17.3.3.1 Overview Same as 17.2.3.1. ************************************************ Best regards, Ming-Tuo -----Original Message----- Dear Ming-Tuo and all, Thanks very much for the work being done. Basically I am fine with the text. There one point that I agreed with Anh Tuan is that "associate to" is more suitable than "attached to" in second paragraph of section 17.2.2.1. Regards. Haiguang -----Original Message----- Dear Sungcheol Thank you for your comment. I'm not sure why you would want to replace "is" with " may be". We have consensus for resource allocation by HR-BS and I prefer to keep it. If in the future we agree on an additional mode for resource allocation then we can add it. In the meantime we need a solid basis we can make progress from. I hope you will agree with me but I cannot agree to a maybe as a consensus view. Thank you, Eldad Eldad Office +1 (631) 622-4134 mobile + 1 (631) 428-4052 Based in the NY area From: Chang, Sungcheol [mailto:scchang@etri.re.kr] Dear Mingtuo, Eldad, and all, Thanks for your making harmonized text proposal. Sorry for late response because I was off line weekend. I will not provide my contribution separately from your contribution because you provide it. I believe that two of three paragraphs are not suitable for AWD text description. However, if most participants want to maintain it in AWD, I am OK. But, I have a comment for resource allocation. I still prefer a distributed resource allocation when considering use case 3. To do this, please replace “is” with “may be” in the proposed text proposal for resource allocation as the followings. 17.2.2 Direct communication between HR-MSs …… Resource for HR-MS direct communication 17.2.3 HR-MS Forwarding to network …… Resource for HR-MS Forwarding to Network Best regards, Sungcheol Chang, Ph.D. Mobile Access Technology Research Team, ETRI -----Original Message----- Dear Mingtuo, Eldad, and all, I generally agree with the text from Eldad, with the following comments: - For HR-MS DC, apart from talking about souce/sink/processing of data within each HR-MS, it is important to talk about the "path taken" to deliver data. Without specifying that the data exchanged between two HR-MSs do not need to go through an infrastructure station, we will have an ovelap between DC and local forwarding. Note that in HR-MS FTN, we do have this "path" element in the description. - For HR-MS FTN, I suggest to use the term "forwarded HR-MS" instead of "end HR-MS". - For both DC and FTN, it is better to use "associated to an infrastucture station..." instead of "attached to...". With the above comments, I propose to edit the text as highlighted (inline and between [*** ***]). Best regards, Anh Tuan ********************** 17.2.2 Direct communication between HR-MSs 17.2.2.1 Overview In HR-MS direct communication, the two communicating HR-MSs are the source and the sink of data. The data packets are passed from upper layers to MAC at the source HR-MS and back to upper layers at the sink HR-MS. [***Data packets are exchanged between the two HR-MSs without passing through an infrastucture station***]. HR-MS direct communication is applicable when 1) the two HR-MSs are in coverage of and are [***associated***] to an HR infrastructure station; 2) one HR- MS is in coverage of and [***associated***] to an HR infrastructure station, while the other HR-MS is out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations; 3) the two HR-MSs are out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations. Resource for HR-MS direct communication is allocated by the HR infrastructure station for cases (1) and (2). When HR infrastructure station does not exist (case 3), resource allocation of HR-MS direct communication is [TBD]. 17.2.3 HR-MS Forwarding to network 17.2.3.1 Overview In HR-MS Forwarding to Network, an HR-MS forwards user data and control signaling between an HR-MS and an HR-infrastructure station. The user data and control signaling do not go through higher layer. The origination and termination of the user data and control signaling are at the [***forwarded***] HR-MS and the HR-infrastructure station respectively and vice versa. HR-MS Forwarding to Network is applicable when 1) the [***Forwarding***] HR-MS and the [***Forwarded***] HR-MS are in coverage of and [***associated] to an infrastructure station; 2) the Forwarding HR-MS is in coverage of [**and associated to***] an HR infrastructure station, while the [***Forwarded***] HR-MS is out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations. Resource for HR-MS Forwarding to Network is allocated by the HR infrastructure station with which the Forwarding HR-MS is associated. ************** ________________________________ From: mingtuo [mailto:mingtuo@nict.com.sg] Sent: Mon 4/25/2011 8:31 AM To: mingtuo@nict.com.sg; Hoang Anh Tuan; Wang Haiguang; ekkim@etri.re.kr; scchang@etri.re.kr; Zeira, Eldad Subject: RE: harmonized text Dear Eldad, Thank you very much for your suggestions. I agree with you and am very happy to add you as co-author. Best regards, Mingtuo ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Zeira, Eldad" <Eldad.Zeira@InterDigital.com> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 19:14:09 -0400 Dear Mingtuo, Thank you for contribution 0054. I agree with a lot of it and have made some editorial suggestions. I would also like to ask you to reconsider one issue which is the coverage of the two HR-MS in DC or in FTN by different infrastructure stations. This is a topic we have not discussed and therefore cannot be a consensus view at this point. If this is something you want you should present it as your own contribution (as you have in 0051) and not as a harmonized text as you have suggested in your agenda. In order to make progress perhaps you would want to remain within the consensus view from the straw-poll? With this in mind I would like to propose the following text: 17.2.2 Direct communication between HR-MSs 17.2.2.1 Overview In HR-MS direct communication, the two communicating HR-MSs are the source and the sink of data. The data packets are passed from upper layers to MAC at the source HR-MS and back to upper layers at the sink HR-MS. HR-MS direct communication is applicable when 1) the two HR-MSs are in coverage of and are attached to an HR infrastructure station; 2) one HR-MS is in coverage of and attached to an HR infrastructure station, while the other HR-MS is out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations; 3) the two HR-MSs are out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations. Resource for HR-MS direct communication is allocated by the HR infrastructure station for cases (1) and (2). When HR infrastructure station does not exist (case 3), resource allocation of HR-MS direct communication is [TBD]. 17.2.3 HR-MS Forwarding to network 17.2.3.1 Overview In HR-MS Forwarding to Network, an HR-MS forwards user data and control signaling between an HR-MS and an HR-infrastructure station. The user data and control signaling do not go through higher layer. The origination and termination of the user data and control signaling are at the end HR-MS and the HR-infrastructure station respectively and vice versa. HR-MS Forwarding to Network is applicable when 1) the end HR-MS and the Forwarding HR-MS are in coverage of and attached to an infrastructure station; 2) the Forwarding HR-MS is in coverage of an HR infrastructure station, while the HR-MS is out of coverage of any HR infrastructure stations. Resource for HR-MS Forwarding to Network is allocated by the HR infrastructure station with which the Forwarding HR-MS is associated. If you agree then I would be very happy to add my name as co-author. I would also seek the opinion of other members of the group regarding this text as a consensual starting point. I will be online again tomorrow ~8am NY time. Thank you for your consideration, Eldad Office +1 631 622 4134 Mobile +1 631 428 4052 Based in NY area |