Re: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today

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Re: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today

To: STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: Re: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today

From: Ariel Lasry <00002b0585801bb1-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 08:11:13 +0000

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Reply-to: Ariel Lasry <alasry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

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Thread-topic: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today

Hi Mehmet,

I missed that ASA shared its spec with 802.3 WG. Sorry about that.

The assumptions made for 25Gbps theoretical feasibility study as presented yesterday are different than for A-PHY v2.0.

The modulation is different (PAM4 vs. PAM16) leading to a lower Nyquist.

The technology used for handling automotive noise conditions is fundamentally different in A-PHY.

Retransmission + Just in Time Noise Cancellation vs. FEC

As for whether the technology used by A-PHY for handling automotive noise, Jaspar performed successful EMC testing on A-PHY v1.0 product from Valens in 2022 (reference: Following Successful Testing of Valens Semiconductor Chipsets, Leading Japanese Automotive Association JASPAR Validates the MIPI A-PHY Standard (prnewswire.com))

If you wish to further evaluate A-PHY Spec and the group determines that it wants to look at A-PHY, then a request can be made to MIPI for a liaison and share the current draft of A-PHY v2.0.

Thanks

Ariel

From: Mehmet Tazebay <mehmet_tazebay@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 7:35 PM
To: Ariel Lasry <alasry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi Ariel,

That is not entirely correct. The ASA spec was made available to 802.3 working group. Also, we have seen today that 25Gbps is not theoretically feasible over a typical 17m coax channel even without automotive noise conditions, aging, temperature effects and etc. Therefore, I’d question the technical feasibility of 32Gbps over the target (15m?) length without seeing a proof.

Thanks,

Mehmet

On Jan 9, 2024, at 10:13 AM, Ariel Lasry <00002b0585801bb1-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Mehmet,

You are correct. The A-PHY v2.0 is not publicly available.

This is the same as for all the other SerDes mentioned in the presentation of Conrad.

The point of Ragnar’s question was about the trend in support for higher data rates for example with A-PHY 32Gbps.

To this Conrad replied that 32Gbps was realized with 2 Lanes with A-PHY.

Which is correct for A-PHY v1.1 with STQ cable.

To that I have just added the comment that from A-PHY v2.0, 32Gbps is supported over a single Lane over Coax or STP cable.

That is all.

Thanks

Ariel

From: Mehmet Tazebay <00002b0d1a6e9d74-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 6:56 PM
To: STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi Ariel,

Thank you for the information. However, I think the white paper is not a sufficient condition as it only defines the features of the technology but not the technical details. I believe that the standard and technical details of APHY 2.0 are not publicly available, correct? If so, how can we review and discuss the technical feasibility of 32Gbps as it is claimed in the white paper?

Thanks,

Mehmet

On Jan 9, 2024, at 7:09 AM, Ariel Lasry <00002b0585801bb1-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi all,

comments on Conrad’s presentation today on the 32Gbps A-PHY, since there was a question on that topic.

In A-PHY v2.0 it is on a single Coax or STP.

Reference: MIPI White Paper: Introduction to MASS

Thanks

Ariel

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