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Re: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today

Hi Ariel,

To the best of my knowledge, a white paper only obtained by individual registration does not fall under publicly available information. This is, why I referenced the openly accessible A-PHY summary page given as a source in the presentation.


To the discussion of Ragnar, Mehmet, George:
As I have said in my presentation, there are technologies (with some limitations) available to address a 25G niche use case.
My points for the scope of ISAAC are:

  *   25G does not have the board market potential that 1-10Gbps do, because volume applications do not require it
  *   As several data points (5m reach on incumbent 13G solution, Feasibility analysis by German/Ahmad) show, it would pose a significant difficulty to define a technology to enable broad market potential, because
     *   Either you have to cut a lot of corners, on cable reach for example (limiting usability in the application)
     *   Or it is a lengthy project from the ground up (channel definition, system analysis, going through every aspect of the waveform, …)
It is and will remain a separate discussion/solution on 25G versus the 1-10Gbps range for each and every aspect. It does not belong in the same project.

BR, Conrad


From: Ariel Lasry <00002b0585801bb1-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:34 AM
To: STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today

CAUTION: This email is from an external origin!

Hi Ragnar,

Below is the summary of all A-PHY Gears with the “Max Net Application Data Rates” as published in the whitepaper.
Your understanding of the A-PHY data rates for G4 and G5 is correct.
Conrad’s presentation mentions only the net data rate of ASA Motion Link and that A-PHY has “similar payload data rates”.

Ariel


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From: Ragnar Jonsson <rjonsson@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:rjonsson@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 7:33 PM
To: Ariel Lasry <alasry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>; STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today


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Hi Ariel,

Thank you for clarifying this. Your description matches my previous understanding.

Can you please also help clarify the net data rates for A-PHY G4 and G5. I was under the impression that the net data rates for these two gears are 10.8Gbps and 14.4Gbps, respectively. Conrad’s presentation listed these as 9.7Gbps and 13Gbps, so I want to make sure I understand the data rates correctly.

Ragnar

From: Ariel Lasry <00002b0585801bb1-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:00002b0585801bb1-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 10:14 AM
To: STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today

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Hi Mehmet,

You are correct. The A-PHY v2.0 is not publicly available.
This is the same as for all the other SerDes mentioned in the presentation of Conrad.
The point of Ragnar’s question was about the trend in support for higher data rates for example with A-PHY 32Gbps.
To this Conrad replied that 32Gbps was realized with 2 Lanes with A-PHY.
Which is correct for A-PHY v1.1 with STQ cable.
To that I have just added the comment that from A-PHY v2.0, 32Gbps is supported over a single Lane over Coax or STP cable.
That is all.

Thanks
Ariel

From: Mehmet Tazebay <00002b0d1a6e9d74-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:00002b0d1a6e9d74-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 6:56 PM
To: STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [802.3_ISAAC] Comment on presentation today


WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.
Hi Ariel,

Thank you for the information. However, I think the white paper is not a sufficient condition as it only defines the features of the technology but not the technical details. I believe that the standard and technical details of APHY 2.0 are not publicly available, correct? If so, how can we review and discuss the technical feasibility of 32Gbps as it is claimed in the white paper?

Thanks,
Mehmet

On Jan 9, 2024, at 7:09 AM, Ariel Lasry <00002b0585801bb1-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:00002b0585801bb1-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

Hi all,

comments on Conrad’s presentation<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ieee802.org_3_ISAAC_public_010924_Zerna-5FISAAC-5F01b-5F240109-5FAutomotiveCamera25G.pdf&d=DwMGaQ&c=nKjWec2b6R0mOyPaz7xtfQ&r=hiHgBSUj2X0k3TORVxe0NCZAlJs6SEDHhwLDz5m9MbY&m=EyZQT3Ox2RZBb5VDHn_79cJ-sZpAVH3qxAwludASRsypM1UsYlj-hyRaipqQjzI7&s=ER2d2AbGOyOL83qpymVBZKQGcBs8aANymwJJjVjbtos&e=> today on the 32Gbps A-PHY, since there was a question on that topic.
In A-PHY v2.0 it is on a single Coax or STP.
Reference: MIPI White Paper: Introduction to MASS<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mipi.org_download-2Dmipi-2Dwhitepaper-2Dintroductory-2Dguide-2Dto-2Dmass&d=DwMGaQ&c=nKjWec2b6R0mOyPaz7xtfQ&r=hiHgBSUj2X0k3TORVxe0NCZAlJs6SEDHhwLDz5m9MbY&m=EyZQT3Ox2RZBb5VDHn_79cJ-sZpAVH3qxAwludASRsypM1UsYlj-hyRaipqQjzI7&s=R9udjqQfZiLFoP2htWQCxbmm77cR8jy4hu7gov0Jkgc&e=>

Thanks
Ariel
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